Cleaning vs. Circulation...

[TonerGuy]

Hard to tell from the photos but do you think this coin has been cleaned and retoned or are these natural marks from circulation ?

 

Are these hairlines not clear/strong/numerous enough to get a details grade ?

 

Is PCGS and/or NGC more forgiving of hairlines on circulated coins than MS coins ?

 

Would you consider this a "problem" coin even though its not in a details slab ?

 

1877 T$1 Trade Dollar, NGC XF45

 

 

[MarkFeld]

Hard to tell from the photos but do you think this coin has been cleaned and retoned or are these natural marks from circulation ?

My guess is that they are natural (or mostly natural) marks from circulation.

 

Are these hairlines not clear/strong/numerous enough to get a details grade ?

I don't think they are bad enough to warrant a details grade

Is PCGS and/or NGC more forgiving of hairlines on circulated coins than MS coins ?

I think and hope so.

 

Would you consider this a "problem" coin even though its not in a details slab ?

No.

 

 

[Kurtdog]

It's in an NGC holder. Your questions are answered. I'll tell you what I tell the kids. Keep your eyes on the coin, don't fall for the labels. Whether that's from cleaning or circulation, the coin looks the same, the label is just different. Keep your eyes on the coin, and the degree of the impairment, don't get hung up on the labels.

[Curry]

I think its just regular circulation marks so you will be fine.

[physics-fan3.14]

Looks fine to me. I generally prefer to get coins with less hairlines/marks myself, but they appear to be natural due to circulation. I just like the eye appeal of a smoother coin.

 

Part of the severity of the hairlines on this particular coin is due to the photography - a poor choice of lighting and angles will make just about any circulated coin look like last night's dinner. In hand, I'll bet that coin is far more attractive.

[TonerGuy]

Hard to tell from the photos but do you think this coin has been cleaned and retoned or are these natural marks from circulation ?

My guess is that they are natural (or mostly natural) marks from circulation.

 

Are these hairlines not clear/strong/numerous enough to get a details grade ?

I don't think they are bad enough to warrant a details grade

Is PCGS and/or NGC more forgiving of hairlines on circulated coins than MS coins ?

I think and hope so.

 

Would you consider this a "problem" coin even though its not in a details slab ?

No.

 

 

Okay is there a way to tell the difference between normal circulation hairlines vs. cleaning hairlines ?

[MarkFeld]

Hard to tell from the photos but do you think this coin has been cleaned and retoned or are these natural marks from circulation ?

My guess is that they are natural (or mostly natural) marks from circulation.

 

Are these hairlines not clear/strong/numerous enough to get a details grade ?

I don't think they are bad enough to warrant a details grade

Is PCGS and/or NGC more forgiving of hairlines on circulated coins than MS coins ?

I think and hope so.

 

Would you consider this a "problem" coin even though its not in a details slab ?

No.

 

 

Okay is there a way to tell the difference between normal circulation hairlines vs. cleaning hairlines ?

 

In some cases yes and in others, no. It's likely that the heavier/more concentrated the hairlines, the better the chance that they are the result of cleaning. You also want to look for other indications of cleaning, such as the sheen of the surfaces, absence of toning, etc.

[physics-fan3.14]

In very general terms, the hairlines from circulation will be random and will show up at most lighting and viewing angles. The hairlines from cleaning will tend to be in one direction (the direction of cleaning), and will only show up at certain lighting angles. As Mark said, the appearance of the hairlines, combined with other surface abnormalities, will provide further clues.

[Kurtdog]

In very general terms, the hairlines from circulation will be random and will show up at most lighting and viewing angles. The hairlines from cleaning will tend to be in one direction (the direction of cleaning), and will only show up at certain lighting angles. As Mark said, the appearance of the hairlines, combined with other surface abnormalities, will provide further clues.

Then on the toning you can add toxicology to the forensic analysis thanks to PCGS SecurePlus. Some retoning happens naturally but sometimes there are chemicals left behind which would further finger the suspect as "cleaned."

[TonerGuy]

Thanks everyone for the input. Ive never paid much attention to circulate grades but I am gaining an appreciation for them.