1937 Proof buffalo nickel - potential purchase, opinions please!

[Hoot]

Howdy - Proof buffalo nickels of 1937 are difficult to come by looking nice. Many are hairlined to death, or they come with weak strikes, haze, or carbon spots like mad. Many have been dipped white to the point of impairment or are simply unattractive.

 

On the other hand, some PF67 or 68 examples can look darned nice, but these are usually white. That's not all that bad, and the 1937 piece is the brilliant proof to have pure white, if that's what you want. Yet, the PF67 pieces start at over 2 grand and the 68 pieces are unaffordable for most of us.

 

So, I have an opportunity to purchase a PF66 example, which is the grade I like in the proof buff series. It's priced between what a person would normally pay for a 66 and a 67. It's quite original with some pretty toning, but like most 66 examples, it has some hairlining (particularly on the reverse below the bison) and a few minute carbon spots with one more noticeable spot on the bison's rump. What I'm struggling with here is originality versus immaculate condition. I have the affliction that I love original coins that often come with some form of distraction but I also love immaculate surfaces and great strikes. Oh, and this coin is exceptionally well struck for a 37 proof.

 

Anyhow, I want your opinion. Be viscious. Or tell me what you like abou the piece. Would I be nuts to pay very strong 66 price for this coin? The scans are pretty good. They show a fair bit of the color and all of the flaws if you look for them.

 

Thanks! Hoot

 

[gmarguli]

Personally, the carbon spots kills it for me. Way too many of them. I'd pass, but I really hate carbon spots on proof Buffs.

[TomB]

Fly-specks on nickel coinage bother me greatly and the specks that appear to be beneath and around the bison would distract me no end, especially considering the highly mirrored, lightly toned fields that they are sitting upon. To me, it looks as though the bison is suffering through a mosquito-plagued summer in Alaska. You know, those big, biting bugs that would find a way to burrow underneath the thick coat that this beast is sporting. So, regardless of the other attributes of this particular coin, I would walk away from it and chase one without spots.

[Wihlborg]

Hoot,

 

I would have to agree with Greg and Tom on this one. I love the strike and color, but the fly specks would bug the out of me.

 

John

[Wihlborg]

By the way, I would gladly pay strong 66 money for the coin if it didn't have those spots. This is the type of coin that drives me crazy, an otherwise wonderful example that has something about it that I find very distracting.

 

John

[Leothelion]

Hoot

I'm siding with you! Go ahead and buy the blessed thing, they only made 5769 proofs for that year. And the spots don't look that bad! They're tiny and there are very few of them. But I'd pay about PR63 money is my guess!

I had a chance to buy a cameo 1939 Jefferson proof type 1 a few years ago for $200! All the devices were heavily frosted and the mirrors were very deep. It was in a PCGs PR67 slab. I was really in struck awe about the coin but I let my naiveness get the best of me because there was a carbon spot that almost filled the inside of the bottom loope of the letter B in Pluribus. I had the coin in hand, it was a stunning cameo early proof but passed on it and it was returned.

At that time, my gut feeling told me that all carbon spots are bad because there's the theory that carbon spots keep growing. And I had learned a long time ago when my dad and I had kept proof coins in a bank vault. A few of those coins had been stored there for as long as 20+ years and had developed carbon spots over that time. So that was another reason why I returned that coin. My fear of carbon spots has curtailed a bit since because I read that all coins will change or tone to some degree, more or less than others, over the first 50 to 70 years of it life. So the coin you're looking at may be the worse it will ever get and the overall eye appeal may be far above average over the majority of what's out there! The problem that you may have is convincing the seller to it go for less then a coin without such spots and then there are the other bidders who could care less about those spots. I don't know what else to tell you other then we're all standing right behind you 100%, no matter what you decide!

 

Good luck!

 

Leo

[Hoot]

Thank you each very much. With a concensus coming from numismatists whom I deeply respect, you have reinfoced my own instincts about the coin. It's headed back.

 

Hoot

[Hoot]

Leo - I'd have done the same that you did years ago! And as for this coin, my eyes just could not get off of the carbon spot on the bison's rump. I'd rather have a spot-free white coin than this piece. I may have to look a long time for such a piece and I also may have to pay significant money for it, but I'd rather wait. If they had offered me this coin for average 66 money, I might have taken it, but the fact is that they want about 66.7 money for it! And I think that the strike is all there. The color is nice, but PCGS gave it a 66 grade because of the distractions on the reverse.

 

I have a lifetime to find a nice 37, and being as intense about my searches as I can be, I'm sure one will pop up. Like you said, there were over 5,000 of these minted, and they are always up for sale.

 

So the search goes on! Hoot

[Bruceswar]

Great coin with spots So I would pass

[michael]

those toning dots do not bother me at all

it is just with nickel coinage being 75% copper that when the coins tone like this coin

 

you will get some of these toning dots due to the copper alloy mixture

take a look at the 20 dollar saint G gold pieces they are only 10% copper alloy and they always get copper spots and evenmoreso with these buffs in proof

 

actually the toning dots are really not that big at all on this small coin

 

this toned coin nicely original and thick skinned and not dipped blast white and with better than average colors stands out among the rest of the nearly thousands of certified ngc/pcgs proof67 and 67 1937 proof buffs

 

as this is the way originally toned coins nickel coins like these buffs usually come with some toning dots in the coin and again these dots are really small and not distracting at all to me

 

but i totally understand

 

i think this coin is a really neat coin with the color and overall eye appeal way above average but just my opinion

 

the main person you have to please is yourself so if you have any reservations at all about this coin return it

 

michael

[michael]

if you buy a dipped blast white coin and it is in a holder just make sure the person who dipped it is an expert not only did it properly

 

and also properly stablized the coin after the dip

 

and let it sit out for two weeks or so to let its surfaces stablize

 

before sending the coin into a slabbing company or the coin will change in the holder after a couple of years

 

michael

[spy88]

Hoot,

 

Not knowing too much about dipping, I wondered if NCS could have made it acceptable had they conserved it. Would they be able to get all the spots off? I know the toning would also go but if they could have "repaired" it, would a clean white proof drop it a point or would it still cross?

 

As you know the series much better then I, I'm assuming as stated, that there are more in 66 available should you have the patience to wait for one. But might it also have some distracting problem(s) as well? Doesn't it boil down to what is the lesser distraction for you and what you can either live with or remedy?

[Hoot]

Hoot,

 

Not knowing too much about dipping, I wondered if NCS could have made it acceptable had they conserved it. Would they be able to get all the spots off? I know the toning would also go but if they could have "repaired" it, would a clean white proof drop it a point or would it still cross?

 

I've had NCS work on one brilliant proof and they were not successful at removing the rather minor carbon spots. Also, from what I've heard from others about this, "curated" coins for carbon will not last, as the spots develop over metal impurities. As Michael said, the copper in the coin (75%) greatly increases the likelihood of spots occurring over time. So, if you're going to buy a spotted coin (and I have), then you should be prepared to live with it. Funny that it's acceptable to me in some cases, but not others. Part of the problem here was the price that attended the piece. As I said, if it had been an average market price, I probably would have simply purchased it. Frankly, for the person who sent me the coin, I was a bit disappointed in how it was initially represented as "spot-free."

 

As you know the series much better then I, I'm assuming as stated, that there are more in 66 available should you have the patience to wait for one. But might it also have some distracting problem(s) as well? Doesn't it boil down to what is the lesser distraction for you and what you can either live with or remedy?

 

I may have gotten out of the frying pan and into the fire, but I've been there a long time and have gotten used to it. This is a coin that I'm patient for, as there are so many that come up for auction. I had long resolved that this was going to have to be a sight-seen purchase simply for the problems stated. I'll just keep my hopes up and keep looking.

 

Hoot