Over Polished Mint Dies

[TetonWarrior]

Looking for someone who knows about over polished die strikes. I have a 1879-S Rev 78 and the Liberty head has a much more flat appearance to it rather than a lustrous one. I read on coincommunity.com that a flat/weaker appearance is caused by over polished dies. (http://www.coincommunity.com/us_morgan_peace_dollar_VAMs/what-is-a-vam.asp)

 

I have attached the obverse image of the Morgan which seems flat in appearance especially in by the nose/eye area and the hair and cap.

 

Has anyone every had a coin like this?

[RWB]

The areas you mention are recessed in the die. The highest details will be among the first to vanish from excessive abrasion/polishing during repair. On a Morgan obverse, the bridge of the nose (or in front of the eye) is usually the first to fade into the field.

 

(Check the book "From Mine to Mint" for information about die polishing and repair.)

[Raisethis2]

 

 

RWB knows more about things like this than your average Collector. I'd suggest you listen to and follow his advice.

 

I'll just add that the coin looks like a nice high end MS 64 (or better) based upon your photo.

[cpm9ball]

If you visit the VAMWorld site, you can find many instances of Morgan dollars that have details polished away, most often resulting from an earlier die clash or some other form of accidental damage while the dies were in use. Quite often, you can find the bottom of the nose at the nasal passage missing or leaves that seem to float in the reverse wreath. These are areas where the details are fairly shallow in relation to the fields.

 

On your coin, the lack of detail in the areas you mention are probably due to a weak strike rather than over-polishing.

 

Chris

[CaptHenway]

To visualize what a die looks like, press a common coin from your pocket into a piece of clay. The high details of the coin will be the deepest in the die, and would not be affected in the field of the die, or the clay, were to be scraped or polished away.

 

Those deepens areas in a coin die are the hardest areas to strike up when metal is moving around during a coin strike. Thus, soft or missing details on the high parts of the coin are usually the cause of an inadequate strike.

[TetonWarrior]

Thanks for the input everyone. I am going take RWB suggestion about getting a mint to mint.

 

As for the grade of the coin. I felt this has potential of a 63 but leery of sending it to NGC who has been beating me up on grading lately. Needless to say, I am not sure if want to send it in or sell it raw.

[cpm9ball]

As for the grade of the coin. I felt this has potential of a 63 but leery of sending it to NGC who has been beating me up on grading lately. Needless to say, I am not sure if want to send it in or sell it raw.

 

Are you sure about the grade? I think I see rub on the leaves and her cap. Of course, we haven't seen the reverse.

 

In any event, if you do decide to submit it, what VAM do you think it is? All of the 78 REV are Top 100's.

 

Chris

 

 

[TetonWarrior]

Chris...I added the rev image to the post. The rev is real good condition and this Rev 78 is a VAM 9.

 

I just sent in a Hit List 40 - 1880-S PL VAM 12 to ANACS which should grade 63-64. I have no problem researching the VAM types, just not sure how to price them out.

[Raisethis2]

 

Again, that is a very nice coin showing very minimal bag marks and sufficient luster. Weak strike doesn't matter much and the potential for the coin to grade MS 64 or above (in my view) makes it a no brainer to get graded.

 

If you plan to sell it, putting it in a holder takes a lot of the guesswork out of the deal.

[cpm9ball]

I have no problem researching the VAM types, just not sure how to price them out.

 

It's not easy trying to determine values for many of the VAM's. If it were me and I was planning to auction any of my VAM's, I would simply let the market determine the final value.

 

Chris

[TetonWarrior]

I am contemplating sending it in now with my 1882 O/S which is a VAM 4. The decision is whether to send them into NGC or another grading company.

 

Leery about NGC after a 1878 8TF and 1916 FB came back way under grade. The NGC rep in my area graded them 64 and 66 respectively and Morgan came back at AU55 and the Merc Dime a MS61. I am cracking both of them for regrading at a later date.

[RWB]

You might want to get additional opinions before sending the dollars, or opening the cases for the other two. Condition discrepancies such as you mention are extremely unusual.

 

NGC and PCGS have authorized dealers, but no direct company representatives. Ask the person who gave you the MS 64 and 66 opinions of a cash offer on that basis -- I suspect there will be lots of excuses about why that is not possible.

[TetonWarrior]

I already did that with Quality US Coins because they sold me an improperly cleaned CC. More or less they blamed it on the grading companies being inconsistent in grading and larger dealers get treated differently than the small guys. I had five dealers look at the 1916 Merc FB before I sent it in and all said it was at least a 65.

 

Thanks for correcting mean on the dealer terminology. My friend is a long time NGC Dealer and I run most of my coins by him first.

[RWB]

OK, I understand better....Still, the discrepancy you mention is very unusual. Please be cautious.

[TetonWarrior]

The market has been down, at least that is my observation. The coin goes in next week. Hopefully it will grade around a 64 and the market value goes up.

 

Thanks to everyone for their input, advise and help.