Interesting CAC Advertisement

[TonerGuy]

You can go to CAC in person and JA will sit down and discuss every coin with you. Many people do this on the phone. Based on my experience, John is MUCH more accessible than graders from the two TPGs. It has made me a better grader and helped me to weed out problem coins.

The education is there, you just have to take advantage of it.

 

I dont care about stickers but I do have to say that is impressive. Not sure I would submit coins to CAC just based on that though.

 

Wouldnt taking an ANA grading seminar offer more education though than just one man's opinion ?

 

And -- how does CAC decide if a coin is sticker worthy ? Meaning how many different graders at CAC actually evaluate the coin before its given it blessed status ?

 

[Hard Times]

You can go to CAC in person and JA will sit down and discuss every coin with you. Many people do this on the phone. Based on my experience, John is MUCH more accessible than graders from the two TPGs. It has made me a better grader and helped me to weed out problem coins.

The education is there, you just have to take advantage of it.

 

Ankur,

I appreciate what you are saying, but I only found this out after I sent my whole collection through CAC which is too late so I learned nothing about his opinion on each. If JA would tolerate it, I would go to CAC with a few boxes in hand, both beaned and not beaned, and go through each with him. But I doubt he could have time to do that.

 

Best, HT

[mommam17]

I think he would do that with you Hard Times.

[FishyOne]

You can go to CAC in person and JA will sit down and discuss every coin with you. Many people do this on the phone. Based on my experience, John is MUCH more accessible than graders from the two TPGs. It has made me a better grader and helped me to weed out problem coins.

The education is there, you just have to take advantage of it.

 

Both Ankur and HT have good points here. I do like CAC and appreciate their service primarily as it relates to resale value. Insofar as education - If CAC helps weed out truly problem coins that are in problem-free holders then we have a very good thing especially when a collector or dealer gains insight into a problem that they were otherwise unaware of.

 

With regard to quality it is different. Color, eye appeal, desirability, etc are usually subjective and as such "just an opinion". JA has more market knowledge that I do and so I could learn what "the market" likes and doesn't from him but that's another animal altogether. Many collectors are not interested in what "the market" likes and only concerned with what "they like". And yes, CAC was created to make money. Any other benefits are secondary.

[jom]

I dont care about stickers but I do have to say that is impressive. Not sure I would submit coins to CAC just based on that though.

 

I can vouch for what Ankur said...I have spoken to JA a couple of times about my submissions.

 

 

Wouldnt taking an ANA grading seminar offer more education though than just one man's opinion ?

 

Of course but what can't you do both?

 

And -- how does CAC decide if a coin is sticker worthy ? Meaning how many different graders at CAC actually evaluate the coin before its given it blessed status ?

 

What/if you even talk to JA you can always ask them. Hec, just call them up and ask the person on the phone. They might be able to answer you questions.

 

As to CAC in general: To me if the cost isn't prohibitive it's a no-brainer to send some of your more valuable coins in. If you get to talk to JA that IS educational and all the better. It's a service so you can use it or not. I just don't understand why some people get their panties in a bunch over it.

 

jom

[AnkurJ]

Taking an ANA course is great but not easy for everyone. One of the CAC graders has taught the class in the past

 

Also, I've made an appointment and taken 30 coins and every one was discussed with John.

[coinman_23885]

You can go to CAC in person and JA will sit down and discuss every coin with you. Many people do this on the phone. Based on my experience, John is MUCH more accessible than graders from the two TPGs. It has made me a better grader and helped me to weed out problem coins.

The education is there, you just have to take advantage of it.

 

Ankur,

I appreciate what you are saying, but I only found this out after I sent my whole collection through CAC which is too late so I learned nothing about his opinion on each. If JA would tolerate it, I would go to CAC with a few boxes in hand, both beaned and not beaned, and go through each with him. But I doubt he could have time to do that.

 

Best, HT

 

If you were to submit the coins, you could ask for feedback concerning pieces that didn't sticker. I have done this and discussed a couple of pieces with him in the past.

[Conder101]

It also basically says that the frame (holder) doesn't matter the quality of the coin does, and CAC helps you find those quality coins. But if the holder doesn't matter then why will they only sticker PCGS and NGC coins? If the holder doesn't matter might there be quality coins in other holders as well? Why won't CAC help you find those? Are they keeping them all for themselves?

 

[PerryHall]

It also basically says that the frame (holder) doesn't matter the quality of the coin does, and CAC helps you find those quality coins. But if the holder doesn't matter then why will they only sticker PCGS and NGC coins? If the holder doesn't matter might there be quality coins in other holders as well? Why won't CAC help you find those? Are they keeping them all for themselves?

CAC doesn't make a market in slabs other than PCGS and NGC. It's all about the money for them.

[AnkurJ]

It also basically says that the frame (holder) doesn't matter the quality of the coin does, and CAC helps you find those quality coins. But if the holder doesn't matter then why will they only sticker PCGS and NGC coins? If the holder doesn't matter might there be quality coins in other holders as well? Why won't CAC help you find those? Are they keeping them all for themselves?

CAC doesn't make a market in slabs other than PCGS and NGC. It's all about the money for them.

 

The correct reason is that the other TPGs have not shown consistent grading standards.

Also I know it's hard to believe that a business would actually want to Make money.

[wheat'swheats]

It also basically says that the frame (holder) doesn't matter the quality of the coin does, and CAC helps you find those quality coins. But if the holder doesn't matter then why will they only sticker PCGS and NGC coins? If the holder doesn't matter might there be quality coins in other holders as well? Why won't CAC help you find those? Are they keeping them all for themselves?

CAC doesn't make a market in slabs other than PCGS and NGC. It's all about the money for them.

When CAC began they took in some other slabs by other grading companies and found just like Ankur stated the consistency was not there. This was told to me by JA himself. John does listen when you talk to him and will reconsider a sticker or lack there of as well as tell you why it did not sticker. I recently sent one back in for reconsideration just like some of you do with PCGS and NGC. John on this occasion agreed with me that the coin was under graded and gave my coin a gold sticker and it cost a hell of a lot less than regarding at the other services.

[MarkFeld]

It also basically says that the frame (holder) doesn't matter the quality of the coin does, and CAC helps you find those quality coins. But if the holder doesn't matter then why will they only sticker PCGS and NGC coins? If the holder doesn't matter might there be quality coins in other holders as well? Why won't CAC help you find those? Are they keeping them all for themselves?

CAC doesn't make a market in slabs other than PCGS and NGC. It's all about the money for them.

When CAC began they took in some other slabs by other grading companies and found just like Ankur stated the consistency was not there. This was told to me by JA himself. John does listen when you talk to him and will reconsider a sticker or lack there of as well as tell you why it did not sticker. I recently sent one back in for reconsideration just like some of you do with PCGS and NGC. John on this occasion agreed with me that the coin was under graded and gave my coin a gold sticker and it cost a hell of a lot less than regarding at the other services.

 

I don't think CAC ever accepted coins for review from grading companies other than NGC and PCGS. That was due to grading considerations and the lack of pop reports by those other companies.

[Hard Times]

Taking an ANA course is great but not easy for everyone. One of the CAC graders has taught the class in the past

 

Also, I've made an appointment and taken 30 coins and every one was discussed with John.

 

I don't live in NJ but it would be very helpful to take 30 coins he has already looked at and discuss his decisions with JA. There are some puzzling ones on each side - bean and not beaned. Most were obvious, but those others it would be good to know.

 

Best, HT

 

 

[coinman_23885]

Taking an ANA course is great but not easy for everyone. One of the CAC graders has taught the class in the past

 

Also, I've made an appointment and taken 30 coins and every one was discussed with John.

 

I don't live in NJ but it would be very helpful to take 30 coins he has already looked at and discuss his decisions with JA. There are some puzzling ones on each side - bean and not beaned. Most were obvious, but those others it would be good to know.

 

Best, HT

 

 

You could always call and ask. John Albanese and CAC are very unusual in that they are willing to spend a good amount of time talking directly to collectors and to be helpful generally despite the fact that he (and CAC) could probably use that time to raise revenue by stickering more coins and expanding operations (as opposed to educating collectors, etc.).

[Conder101]

The correct reason is that the other TPGs have not shown consistent grading standards.

But the ad simply says they are trying to help you identify the quality coins. (Remember the "frame"/holder doesn't matter.) If that was true then the consistency of the grading by the service wouldn't matter, just whether or not THIS coin was a quality one for the stated grade.

[halfpint]

The correct reason is that the other TPGs have not shown consistent grading standards.

But the ad simply says they are trying to help you identify the quality coins. (Remember the "frame"/holder doesn't matter.) If that was true then the consistency of the grading by the service wouldn't matter, just whether or not THIS coin was a quality one for the stated grade.

 

...great point and I agree.. (thumbs u

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

The correct reason is that the other TPGs have not shown consistent grading standards.

But the ad simply says they are trying to help you identify the quality coins. (Remember the "frame"/holder doesn't matter.) If that was true then the consistency of the grading by the service wouldn't matter, just whether or not THIS coin was a quality one for the stated grade.

 

...great point and I agree.. (thumbs u

 

I don't think it simply says that at all. In fact, I think it is a much more expansive statement.

[Kurtdog]

I don't think CAC ever accepted coins for review from grading companies other than NGC and PCGS. That was due to grading considerations and the lack of pop reports by those other companies.

Why discriminate if the coin grade is right? I don't understand that logic. I thought they're endorsing coin grades, not slabs.

[MJ]

I don't think CAC ever accepted coins for review from grading companies other than NGC and PCGS. That was due to grading considerations and the lack of pop reports by those other companies.

Why discriminate if the coin grade is right? I don't understand that logic. I thought they're endorsing coin grades, not slabs.

 

I think you already know the answer to this question. They only make a market in NGC and PCGS coins. It's their business model.

 

MJ

[FishyOne]

I don't think CAC ever accepted coins for review from grading companies other than NGC and PCGS. That was due to grading considerations and the lack of pop reports by those other companies.

Why discriminate if the coin grade is right? I don't understand that logic. I thought they're endorsing coin grades, not slabs.

 

I think you already know the answer to this question. They only make a market in NGC and PCGS coins. It's their business model.

 

MJ

 

Additionally, and I am sure many of you know this, JA & Co did view ANACS slabbed pieces and found their acceptance rate (i.e. Green Bean/Better) was so low they decided to only review PCGS and NGC slabs.

[MJ]

I don't think CAC ever accepted coins for review from grading companies other than NGC and PCGS. That was due to grading considerations and the lack of pop reports by those other companies.

Why discriminate if the coin grade is right? I don't understand that logic. I thought they're endorsing coin grades, not slabs.

 

I think you already know the answer to this question. They only make a market in NGC and PCGS coins. It's their business model.

 

MJ

 

Additionally, and I am sure many of you know this, JA & Co did view ANACS slabbed pieces and found their acceptance rate (i.e. Green Bean/Better) was so low they decided to only review PCGS and NGC slabs.

 

Thank you for the additional info.

 

MJ

[jom]

I don't think CAC ever accepted coins for review from grading companies other than NGC and PCGS. That was due to grading considerations and the lack of pop reports by those other companies.

Why discriminate if the coin grade is right? I don't understand that logic. I thought they're endorsing coin grades, not slabs.

 

I think you already know the answer to this question. They only make a market in NGC and PCGS coins. It's their business model.

 

MJ

 

Additionally, and I am sure many of you know this, JA & Co did view ANACS slabbed pieces and found their acceptance rate (i.e. Green Bean/Better) was so low they decided to only review PCGS and NGC slabs.

 

Probably true...but the reason is simple: Most ANACS coins that were correctly graded were probably cracked out long ago and sent to either of the big two. The ones that are left over are probably not the best examples....

 

jom

[Kurtdog]

I didn't know any of that. It seemed, well, counter-intuitive. I mean, they're looking to endorse good coins, right? Anyway, that's what I was seeing. I guess it was a little naive. Thanks for the correction, guys.

[wheat'swheats]

It also basically says that the frame (holder) doesn't matter the quality of the coin does, and CAC helps you find those quality coins. But if the holder doesn't matter then why will they only sticker PCGS and NGC coins? If the holder doesn't matter might there be quality coins in other holders as well? Why won't CAC help you find those? Are they keeping them all for themselves?

CAC doesn't make a market in slabs other than PCGS and NGC. It's all about the money for them.

When CAC began they took in some other slabs by other grading companies and found just like Ankur stated the consistency was not there. This was told to me by JA himself. John does listen when you talk to him and will reconsider a sticker or lack there of as well as tell you why it did not sticker. I recently sent one back in for reconsideration just like some of you do with PCGS and NGC. John on this occasion agreed with me that the coin was under graded and gave my coin a gold sticker and it cost a hell of a lot less than regarding at the other services.

 

I don't think CAC ever accepted coins for review from grading companies other than NGC and PCGS. That was due to grading considerations and the lack of pop reports by those other companies.

Mr. Feld, nowhere did I state that CAC accepted slab submissions of any other than NGC, and PCGS.

What I did say was that John told me that when they were starting the company they were deciding as to which slabs to consider. Therefore he acquired (took in) several other slabs for consideration. ANACS, IGC, and SEGS. John said that they found that the consistent grading quality of these companies were lacking and therefore did not make the cut for the CAC business model. I hope this clears things up for you.

[MarkFeld]

It also basically says that the frame (holder) doesn't matter the quality of the coin does, and CAC helps you find those quality coins. But if the holder doesn't matter then why will they only sticker PCGS and NGC coins? If the holder doesn't matter might there be quality coins in other holders as well? Why won't CAC help you find those? Are they keeping them all for themselves?

CAC doesn't make a market in slabs other than PCGS and NGC. It's all about the money for them.

When CAC began they took in some other slabs by other grading companies and found just like Ankur stated the consistency was not there. This was told to me by JA himself. John does listen when you talk to him and will reconsider a sticker or lack there of as well as tell you why it did not sticker. I recently sent one back in for reconsideration just like some of you do with PCGS and NGC. John on this occasion agreed with me that the coin was under graded and gave my coin a gold sticker and it cost a hell of a lot less than regarding at the other services.

 

I don't think CAC ever accepted coins for review from grading companies other than NGC and PCGS. That was due to grading considerations and the lack of pop reports by those other companies.

Mr. Feld, nowhere did I state that CAC accepted slab submissions of any other than NGC, and PCGS.

What I did say was that John told me that when they were starting the company they were deciding as to which slabs to consider. Therefore he acquired (took in) several other slabs for consideration. ANACS, IGC, and SEGS. John said that they found that the consistent grading quality of these companies were lacking and therefore did not make the cut for the CAC business model. I hope this clears things up for you.

 

Thank you. I had misconstrued the meaning of "When CAC began they took in some other slabs by other grading companies..". I appreciate your taking the time to clear that up for me.

[Kurtdog]

John said that they found that the consistent grading quality of these companies were lacking and therefore did not make the cut for the CAC business model.

Well, but then, they're not endorsing "A and B" coins, they're endorsing slabs with "A and B" coins. Look at the coin, and the slab, that's their "business model." Interesting.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

John said that they found that the consistent grading quality of these companies were lacking and therefore did not make the cut for the CAC business model.

Well, but then, they're not endorsing "A and B" coins, they're endorsing slabs with "A and B" coins. Look at the coin, and the slab, that's their "business model." Interesting.

 

I understand the possibility of interpreting the decision in that manner.

 

I would think that it was more a matter of sustaining a business model, by determining some level of competence of the starting point for offering the services that CAC was contemplating.

 

If Entity # 1 has a consistency rate of 50% and supplies 50% of the market (the potential "customer" source for CAC), and Entity # 2 has a consistency rate of 38% and supplies 40% of the market, and Entity # 3 has a consistency rate of 10% and supplies 10% of the market, I would think the cost vs. market availability for the CAC business model would be to eliminate Entity # 3 as a concentration. I am sure there were other factors that were considered - collector perception, previous sales records, etc. At the end of the day, to be cost efficient, a choice was made that allows the business model to survive long term.

[WoodenJefferson]

$340,000,000.00 that's over 1/3 of a billion dollars! @ say $1,000.00 per coin, that equates to 340,000 coins, 20 per box = 17,000 boxes , 1180 cu ft. or 200 sq ft which is about the size of a single car garage...doable.

[MarkFeld]

$340,000,000.00 that's over 1/3 of a billion dollars! @ say $1,000.00 per coin, that equates to 340,000 coins, 20 per box = 17,000 boxes , 1180 cu ft. or 200 sq ft which is about the size of a single car garage...doable.

 

My guess is that the average value per coin is multiples of the example you used.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

$340,000,000.00 that's over 1/3 of a billion dollars! @ say $1,000.00 per coin, that equates to 340,000 coins, 20 per box = 17,000 boxes , 1180 cu ft. or 200 sq ft which is about the size of a single car garage...doable.

 

Math OCD....