Treasure Hoard Comparison

[RichH]

Brother Jonathan (BJ) vs Saddle Ridge (SR)

 

Every once in a blue moon I get smitten (more likely bitten) by the gold bug and the romantic lure of treasure gold.

 

What was it that Seinfeld's Kramer character said about LA ? Oh yes,

 

"Jerry, it's L.A.! Nobody leaves. She's a seductress, she's a siren, she's a virgin, she's a whore!"

 

Yup, this sale got me, and after the prerequisite hemming and hawing, I final purchased a 1879S $20 Double Eagle. Now let me say right away that the coin is probably

right now, this very second a bit overpriced but I see this as still a decent buy based on my Brother Jonathan experience, specifically:

 

The Brother Jonathan lot I purchased ( the May 1999 Bowers sale) hammered for $4.1K including the juice. I sold it at the Stacks January 2009 sale for $6.4 K after the seller fee for a 56% gain in 10yrs, so it averaged 5% not figuring in the compounding yada yada...... not great, and not bad......

 

In the catalog, Mr Bowers was very right in stating that once off the market "they will become dispersed, and even single coins will be hard to find". To validate, I checked records from the major auction houses and this holds true, not a lot hit BJ's the block very often.

 

I strategically stayed in the same grade range, MS62 on BJ, went MS62+ on the SR. this equated to same price range.

 

The 1865S $20 dominated the BJ sale, a total of 415 lots some of which had 5-10 UNC coins ranging from 1 MS66 to a bunch of AU details, I approximate around 500-550 total coins for the date. For the SR hoard and the 1879S $20 , only 43 total, this I see as is a big plus, as this date wont get overwhelmed by the new coins hitting the populations. but certainly not as scarce a date.

 

I don't have the SR coin in hand yet, but it definitely looks like much fewer hits, in fact the BJ coin had a deep gash to the cheek focal point that inhibited much more price appreciation, and that is why I stopped my appreciation and sold her. Although my BJ was well conserved, I gotta believe that, in general, staying in the ground long term is much easier than in salt water on gold.

 

So , concluding, I am guessing that over time SR price appreciation will be decent, possibly slightly better than the BJ sale for the date I picked. The Saddle Ridge Hoard label will probably be somewhat difficult to find as they disperse into estate collections and are held long term by many. I also think the marketing ( cool box, pamphlet etc) will help in making it a family keepsake, and help keep many off the market. Also, the selling via Amazon may also help if some buyers are not active coin collectors but bought the "story".

 

Thanks for reading, What do you guys think ?

 

Cheers !

 

Rich

 

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[jgenn]

I hope you did some investing in plain old gold bullion back in 1999 -- I'm sure I won't be the only one to point out how well that did over that 10 year span. Your SR will probably work out just as well as the BJ but I can't imagine it doing much better. My impression is that it will take quite a few years to overcome the PR premium that got priced into that coin.

 

I have made a few high end purchases at market prices that I think I will have to hold onto for quite some time to ensure I get my initial investment back, let alone a profit. But, the eye appeal is way more impressive than a bank statement!

 

Enjoy your piece of that amazing hoard!

 

~jack

[RichH]

Hi Jack,

 

Yes, actually I got 2X plus gains on gold by buying modern gold unc $5 commems around 2005, averaged in around $150 ea for PCGS/NGC MS69s when gold was way down..... they are basically bullion....

 

But you are right, its an amazing coin, yes I knowingly paid a premium, but its the kind of coin I like to add to my collection now and again.

 

Cheers !

 

Rich

[RWB]

Important parts of the Brother Jonathan turned out to have been bogus - - -

[coinsbygary]

Very nice Rich! Congratulations on your purchase!

 

I got bit by the bug also and bought one of the details graded coins. The premiums on the Saddle Ridge Hoard are bit hefty for my budget, however the coin I bought looks nice AND it's the cheapest coin of the entire lot. In other words I bought the best coin I could afford. Furthermore, since I bought my coin just as the sale opened, I got the pick of the lot.

 

What this means in terms of an investment for me is that should I decide to sell my coin, all I need is for the price of gold to approach $2000/oz. and I'm probably at a break even point. Furthermore, mine is one of the more attractive details graded coins of the hoard which increases the desirability of my coin. The downside is that a details graded coin will hinder my growth potential should the pedigree take off.

 

Interestingly, according to the POP report that comes with the coin, there were over 200 details graded coins in the lot and they're just about gone. There are none left on Amazon and only one left on Kagin's site.

 

Now lets say I got one of the graded coins at XF or AU to say nothing of the MS coins for a much higher price (double fair market value), it would take a whole lot more than the price of gold going up to recoup my initial purchase price. Believe me this coin is a deal considering another double eagle that I currently own I purchased for about the same price as this coin when the price of gold was much higher. That coin is graded MS-62 and has way more contact marks than this coin. Needless to say I'll need to hang on to that coin for a while also.

 

Additionally, this coin gives me just about everything I like in a coin. It has a pedigree and it looks great in spite of the fact that cleaning prevents it from getting a full grade. Normally, I try to avoid cleaned coins like the plague but in this case I see the coin as an opportunity to buy a really nice looking coin and get in on a great story.

Gary

 

PS I'll have more to say about this coin in this month's Coin of the Month feature!

 

[RichH]

Gary,

 

Kudos on your purchase, great job !

 

Since the 1889S is a Type III, I may look to add the Type I and II designs at a later date and move to a 19th Century Type set "with gold".

 

Regarding pricing, its all relative, coins in this hoard have a great pedigree and I like having a few "story" coins in my collection.

 

In some ways, coin collecting and its appreciation & study Is kind of like fly fishing. For example, I would much rather hike in a few miles to a remote location, and fool a native 5 inch wild brook trout than catch a 24 inch hatchery stocked trout, everyday !! Its all in the eye of beholder and the point of reference one has.

 

So, I feel very blessed to be able to snag this coin, I just retired from corporate America, and trust me, I wouldn't be buying this (or any ) coin if funding , or worrying about a $1K plus minus gain loss was even a remote issue. I tried to write the initial post to give new collectors a perspective and lessons learned, while expressing that this coin is a long term hold, and the draw is not large monetary gain.

 

To me the coin's real long term "value" will be that when sold as part of my estate sale the proceeds will 1- go to a worthwhile charity, and 2- they find good homes with next generation collectors.

 

Happy collecting, and Cheers !

 

PS - GO Rangers - Please win one more Cup before I do go !!!!!

 

Rich

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mohawk]

Hey Rich,

Congrats on your new purchase!! I think you're quite correct in your assessment of this hoard's potential. The story will carry these coins as it has all the things collectors of classic US coins look for, and they are being marketed well. I'd say that's key with a large hoard such as this. I think I said on here that old US gold isn't my thing, and it really isn't, but I do have one piece.....a 1909-O Half Eagle......and the reason I have that one is because of the story behind that particular issue. A great story can do wonders for coins and if they ever find a huge hoard of Ottoman gold somewhere in Europe, guess who will be the first in line to try to snag one!!

 

Enjoy your new coin my friend!

 

~Tom

 

 

[Zebo]

Nice pickup Rich,

 

You mention the Brother Jpnathan 1865 S. I was watching the Long Beach auction last night and one that I would of loved to pick up, but don't have the deep pockets to afford, was a 1865 S Brother Jonathan MS 64 Double Eagle. Nice coin that sold for $19,925.