NGC will guarantee copper

[keithdagen]

Link

[nwcs]

I'm really surprised that they are only guaranteeing the copper for 10 years from grading date. I would have thought it would be for as long as it is in the holder. But it is a nice move. I've already decided to switch to NGC, so my last submission at PCGS is the last. Now I just need to send that ANA form in...

 

Neil

[MarkFeld]

Great news!

 

A few questions come to mind immediately. I'm confident I'll have more! :

 

1) How will people know when various copper coins were holdered for purposes of determining if they fall under the guarantee?

 

2) Why the 10 year limit? That raises a red flag - sorry guys

 

3) Why do coins need to be sent to NCS for evaluation, rather than directly to NGC? That looks bad - sorry again.

 

I'm hoping someone at NGC will reply, hint, hint.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John Maben]

Hello Mark.

 

1) We're working on it. One possibility is to have a feature at our website where the "born on" date is accessible by entering the cert number.

 

2) Why does it raise a red flag when you go from no guarantee on copper, to 10 years? Even though we believe our holder is superior, we want to exercise prudence here, particularly given the nature of copper.

 

3) My understanding is that you send the coins to NGC for reholdering, not NCS, but that they will be automatically prescreened to see if they can benefit from NCS conservation. If so, with the submitters pre-approval or approval after being contacted, they would be forwarded to NCS.

 

Customer Service is always available and they are prepared to answer any other questions you may have.

 

John

[John Maben]

Neil,

 

Good move, making the switch!

 

John

[nwcs]

John, the form will be in the mail tomorrow. Although I suspect the rate for me will go up whenever UT plays UF in September...

 

The born on date is a good idea, and raises a question. Will other serial numbers also have that feature do you think? Or will it be strictly copper ones created after the start time?

 

Neil

[Oldtrader3]

Can I submit other series and request that they go to NCS if, in your opinion, they will not cross? For example, I have some very early issue AU Liberty Gold coins that are quite dirty, making them difficult to grade at best. Should I submit those to you or send them directly to NCS? In any event since they are going to change slabs anyhow, I would like to get them cleaned up but do not want to risk doing it myself.

[MarkFeld]

John M.,

 

As always, thank you for your prompt and courteous reply.

 

The possible website feature for checking birth dates would be nice but it doesn't address the issue of buying coins at shows and that is where a large number change hands. I'm not trying to give you a hard time here - I'm actually trying to help and provide feedback, from a buyer's and retailer's point of view.

 

We want to make mention of this news on our website but would like to have solid information when we do so.

 

Regarding the 10 year guarantee - sure 10 years is great compared to nothing or even compared to 5 years! The first question that many will ask about the 10 year limit, though, is why only 10 years. I understand and respect the prudence you are exercising though.

 

My question about why coins need to be sent to NCS and not NGC was based on this, quoted from the news release :

 

 

"NGC-certified coins encapsulated in NGC’s older holders may be submitted to NGC for a free evaluation by Numismatic Conservation Services, which has an arrangement with NGC to provide such evaluations. Submitters will be notified if NCS determines that conservation work is advisable. These coins will then be sent back to NGC for reholdering. NGC reserves the right to return coins in their existing holders if it believes that the coins’ grades cannot be guaranteed."

 

[John Maben]

Neil- I am not sure. It may also just be that you call and get the information from a touchtone phone or from a human being.

 

OldTrader- How old R U anyway?

It would be more logical to send those to NCS first, as they will forward them to NGC with or without conservation (they will decide what if anything needs to be done) if you request it. Also, if something won't grade at NGC they can put it in their holder for you with a details grade and guarantee of genuineness.

 

[John Maben]

Mark,

 

Good points and I understand completely where you are coming from. Please be patient and I am sure we'll have more solid information for you in the coming days. The quote you gave states that the coins should be sent first to NGC, not NCS, but I understand the potential confusion.

 

John

[MarkFeld]

John, did you actually say "Please be patient "?

 

Did you forget who you were speaking to?

 

My confusion about NGC or NCS evaluating the coins stems from:

 

"....may be submitted to NGC for a free evaluation by Numismatic Conservation Services"

 

Sounds like coins are sent to NGC but evaluated by NCS.

 

Again, I think it's great that you guys are doing this, as we have a number of clients who wont buy NGC copper because of the lack of a guarantee. You have strengthened your positon with this change (pun intended with the use of the word change).

[John Maben]

Thank you, Mr Feld.

[DWLange]

The language of the news article has been revised to clarify which coins are covered by the guarantee. These are ones encapsulated in the current generation NGC holder, which is immediately identifiable by the words NUMISMATIC GUARANTY CORPORATION at the bottom of the label.

[RMontgomery]

Here is an image of the NGC holder and label that will be covered by the new guarantee for copper:

 

 

[DWLange]

In answer to the questions posed here, we've revised the language of our guarantee and the article about it. Please reread it here:

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.asp?IDArticle=107

[EVillageProwler]

While I like my old coppers raw, I think this is an important development. One of the things I like about NGC is their variety attribution by Newcomb and Sheldon #'s. This guarantee should go a long way in making the variety collectors feel good about bringing their coins to NGC.

 

EVP

 

[shylock]

This is great news for copper collectors who've been worn thin by PCGS's crossover agenda. Good to see you guys putting a sound game plan together. I only wish you'd remove the 10 year asterisk. Original coppers that make it into your airtite holder in full red condition after 100+ years should last at least another 100. Plus, this now creates an "expiration date" you'll need to make slab owners aware of, not a great selling point 10 years down the road. Reholdering will always be an option but I'm not sure if that additional business will be worth the stigma of the expiration date. Food for thought...

[nwcs]

Great comment about the expiring date. If we can tell from the slab type that it's in the guarantee zone, how will we know when it expires? While I suspect the slabs will keep on changing, without dates or other means it's awfully hard to keep track of slab variants and coins at the same time!

 

Neil

[IrishMike]

I agree with Shylock's comments. Are you putting an expiration date for accounting accrual reasons? If not, the expiration date doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy about what in all other regards sounds like an idea long over due.

[John Maben]

NGC had no guarantee for these coins since its inception. There is a reason for that. To a lesser degree those reasons still hold true. As stated earlier in this thread, even though we believe our holder is superior, we want to exercise prudence here, particularly given the nature of copper. While 10 years may not meet the expectations of some, from a consumer point of view we are still doing a very good thing in adding something positive, an additional level of confidence, that previously did not exist. It might also be worth mentioning that at least 2 of our competitors (and probably the majority of them in fact) agree with exercising prudence here by virtue of the fact that one guarantee's only silver and gold coins and another offers a time-limited guarantee.

 

John

[bigd5]

I don't see the 10 years as being a big deal. If the coin is going to change in the holder, it's probably going to do it before the 10 year limit. If it's a stable piece of copper (is there such a thing? ), meaning a piece that hasn't been messed with that will hold it's color, the holder isn't going to influence the coin any.

I would be curious to know if someone could call/email ngc with a cert. # on one of these new holders for copper, and customer service could give them a time frame of when the coin was slabbed, by that cert. number. Otherwise, 5 years down the road, with a coin that's bounced around a few bourse floors, how would anyone know the timeline of the original slabbing?

[Spooly]

I guess it's better than nothing. It can't hurt the market prices. (You almost can't give away NGC Lincolns)

 

 

But based on PCGS copper program ..............I will be sticking PCGS's real copper guarantee and strong market prices.

 

I guess half steps are better than nothing.

 

 

I see the NCS thing as a shameless self promotion!