1921 D Morgan

[benjmurts]

Why is the D on the 1921 Morgan Dollar tiny but on all the other years it is large?

 

[messydesk]

Large mint marks were retired after the Barber coinage ended in 1916. A large D punch wouldn't fit on the other types.

[cpm9ball]

All of the mintmarks (D&S) on '21 Morgans are small. Since production of the Morgan had ceased in 1904 and the original hubs were destroyed in 1910, I have to assume that the Mint opted to use the smaller mintmark punches that were to be used on the new Peace Dollar. Keep in mind that the Morgan design was revived only until the new Peace dies were ready.

 

Chris

[RWB]

I have to assume that the Mint opted to use the smaller mintmark punches that were to be used on the new Peace Dollar. Keep in mind that the Morgan design was revived only until the new Peace dies were ready.

 

Slight implication discrepancy….The Morgan design was the normal one for the silver dollar in 1921 and not a temporary one. The new Peace design did not exist in any design form until late November 1921. No special mintmark punches were prepared. I recall that David Lange has identified which letter punches were used for the 1921 Morgans and the Peace dollars.

 

[cpm9ball]

Thanks for the correction, Roger.

 

I noted that QDB did not specify a reason for the use of the smaller mintmark. Do you recall where you read David's explanation? If not, maybe he will chime in.

 

Chris

[RWB]

I think -- it was in one of his Numismatist columns -- but I'm not sure. David has discovered a lot of neat details and I can't keep track of them all.

[Kurtdog]

The reverses are different on the 1921s. Show me any reverse and I'll tell you if it's a fiscal-year 1921.

[messydesk]

Why keep around a mint mark punch that would be useless for all current designs, not knowing you'd need it in 5 years?

 

The small mint marks were much easier to punch with fewer blows than the large ones, expediting working die production. I have never seen a 1921-D or 1921-S Morgan dollar with a repunched mint mark. Such a coin would be a major discovery.

[RWB]

Morgan design dollars were made in FY 1921 and FY 1922. What are the differences between FY 1921 and FY1922 Morgans?

 

Maybe the small mintmark was an economy decision by the Wilson and Harding administrations?

[messydesk]

Morgan design dollars were made in FY 1921 and FY 1922. What are the differences between FY 1921 and FY1922 Morgans?

The FY 1922 Morgans were made later in 1921 than the FY 1921 Morgans.

[cpm9ball]

The reverses are different on the 1921s. Show me any reverse and I'll tell you if it's a fiscal-year 1921.

 

If I inflate three identical balloons, can you tell me which one has the most hot air?

 

Chris

[Kurtdog]

The reverses are different on the 1921s. Show me any reverse and I'll tell you if it's a fiscal-year 1921.

If I inflate three identical balloons, can you tell me which one has the most hot air?

 

Chris

I really can tell the 1921 reverse from the others. Why don't you try me?

[RWB]

Since us po' mortals can't tell which were made in FY 1921 and FY 1922, you will have to excuse use, and show us the differences? A Morgan made in June 1921 and one made in July 1921 would be sufficient.

 

[comicdonna]

[johnny9434]

ya learn something new everyday

[Kurtdog]

Since us po' mortals can't tell which were made in FY 1921 and FY 1922, you will have to excuse use, and show us the differences? A Morgan made in June 1921 and one made in July 1921 would be sufficient.

 

Nice try. I didn't say I can differentiate when in fiscal-year 1921 they were made, did I? I can tell the ones with fiscal-year 1921 on them. I suppose by your ridicule you're saying you don't know how to do that. Don't worry about it, you're not the only one.

 

[MarkW]

I believe Kurtdog was referring to Morgans dated 1921. As to a difference in the FY '21s and FY '22s, I can't vouch. There is indeed a difference in the 1921 coins and their 1904 and earlier predecessors. The attempt to cut 1921 dies with the same look as the earlier Morgans failed badly. She is not the same Miss Liberty, The 1921s had a very different look, on both sides, than the earlier versions.

[cpm9ball]

The reverses are different on the 1921s. Show me any reverse and I'll tell you if it's a fiscal-year 1921.

If I inflate three identical balloons, can you tell me which one has the most hot air?

 

Chris

I really can tell the 1921 reverse from the others. Why don't you try me?

 

KD, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't an 1878 Reverse of '78 7TF used as a model for the 1921 reverse design with some modifications to the PAF, eagle's breast and feathers?

 

Chris

 

 

[Kurtdog]

Chris, if they were, they weren't exact copies. There's a "tell" on the 1921s that will differentiate those. I don't need to see the mint marks. Those can be blackened out.

 

We can have a little fun if you boys can try me out.

[jpcienkus]

I believe Kurtdog was referring to Morgans dated 1921. As to a difference in the FY '21s and FY '22s, I can't vouch. There is indeed a difference in the 1921 coins and their 1904 and earlier predecessors. The attempt to cut 1921 dies with the same look as the earlier Morgans failed badly. She is not the same Miss Liberty, The 1921s had a very different look, on both sides, than the earlier versions.

 

I agree with you about the obverse. Even though they tried, to me, it's easy to tell a '21 from previous editions.

 

Now KD has me curious about the reverse. I'll have to check that out and see if I can identify the telltale sign he is talking about.

[cpm9ball]

Chris, if they were, they weren't exact copies. There's a "tell" on the 1921s that will differentiate those. I don't need to see the mint marks. Those can be blackened out.

 

We can have a little fun if you boys can try me out.

 

Berries?

 

Chris

[Kurtdog]

Chris, if they were, they weren't exact copies. There's a "tell" on the 1921s that will differentiate those. I don't need to see the mint marks. Those can be blackened out.

 

We can have a little fun if you boys can try me out.

Berries?

 

Chris

Yes! Now, where? Take a look at these. Can you spot the 1921?

 

[AcesKings]

Here are two reverses, one from before '04, and a '21. I know one of the differences is the space between the eagles left wing and the head/neck, any others? As for FY '21 and '22.....?

 

 

[Kurtdog]

The 1921 is the top one.

[AcesKings]

Correct, judging by your,obviously the CC isn't a '21.

I'd say the middle one....

[cpm9ball]

The 1921 is the top one.

 

That is an 1890-CC Tailbar.

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

The middle one........16 berries!

 

Chris

[AcesKings]

Chris, if they were, they weren't exact copies. There's a "tell" on the 1921s that will differentiate those. I don't need to see the mint marks. Those can be blackened out.

 

I had read somewhere, can't remember where, that the difference was at the eagles wing, but since your third one has the same difference, but differing berry arrangement, I'd guess that was wrong?

 

[Kurtdog]

Aces, how embarrassing. In my haste to reply to Chris, I overlooked the mint mark. I shouldn't have given that. But, yes, you got the 1921, it's the second one. I'm just curious, did you get it from the VAM? There's another way to tell.

 

And, Chris, I'm impressed, that's indeed the 1890-CC.

[Kurtdog]

Aces, PCGS has a rundown of some differences, I don't have that link handy, but they don't note the one I'm referencing.