An interesting PCGS AU 58 $20

[O mint bug]

Heritage has a 1852 O graded AU 58 that is going to auction this weekend. For those of you that are familiar with grading type ones look at this coin and tell me what you would grade this coin as if bought raw. I have and AU 53 CAC I will post as soon as my camera is back (wife on spring break) and I would be hard pressed to trade straight up catalogue value excluded. Frankly AU 58 is a very "unique" grade given the wear on the obverse. What is your call? The coin in question is the first $201852 O AU 58 up for sale this weekend. My definition of a high end AU is very slight were and that would exclude bag marks as defined in Bowers DE guide. This one puzzles me. I think it goes a long way to addressing the NGC/PCGS issue on old gold. I am very interested in seeing what this coin brings as the 52 O n AU 58 is not a common coin.

 

Heritage provides some very good opportunities for collectors as they are offering a 1854 AU55 $20 O and some other exceptionally nice old gold coins this auction, this is not a knock on them as they are selling it for a third party and not out of their own inventory. I really like the site as they are about as good as you can get at comparing grades on coins, pop reports and determining current values.

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

Link? It took me about 10 minutes to try and find a link. Is this it? http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1204&lotIdNo=26023

 

If you look at past auctions there is quite a range of quality.

 

Here is one I sold a while back, high end IMO. I had originally purchased it from Bill VonElm of Country Lane rarities:

 

http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=10&lot=1553

[RWB]

Marginal AU from the photos - would have to see in person. But, looks better than those scruffy MS-60-62 coins that abound.

[CSdot]

Link? It took me about 10 minutes to try and find a link. Is this it? http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1204&lotIdNo=26023

 

If you look at past auctions there is quite a range of quality.

 

Here is one I sold a while back, high end IMO. I had originally purchased it from Bill VonElm of Country Lane rarities:

 

http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=10&lot=1553

 

I really like the one you sold on the Goldberg site. (thumbs u

[DaveG]

If you're talking about the coin in the Central States auction that Nutmeg Coin linked to, I'd say that the coin is dirty and I'd have to see it in hand, as I usually find that Heritage's pictures don't do their coins any favors.

 

As far as CAC goes, I know one of the CAC graders fairly well and, while he didn't write the book, he does teach the class and I (and the rest of the numismatic world) value his grading opinion very highly.

 

If you're talking about some other coin, please provide a link.

[michael]

----------Heritage has a 1852 O graded AU 58 that is going to auction this weekend. For those of you that are familiar with grading type ones look at this coin and tell me what you would grade this coin as if bought raw. ----------

 

1852-O $20 AU58 PCGS. CAC.

2014 April 23 - 27 CSNS US Coin Signature Auction - Chicago #1204

 

from the photo only as per the above -----raw -----i would grade this choice au with slight problems but problems nonetheless details grade au55 but market acceptable in a graded holder as au55 again grading from the photos a coin that cant seem to find a good home

 

the 3 bag marks in the left field next to the eye (one is HUGE scrape/gouge) and the 3 bag heavy marks in the middle of the shield on the reverse BOTHER ME

 

a "BUT" coin great coin---- "BUT" for the 3 bag marks in the left field (one IS a huge gouge) and "BUT" FOR the 3 bag marks on the reverse in the middle of the shield OTHER THAN THAT IT IS A GREAT COIN!!

 

a coin definately NOT for me------------------ PASS ------------

 

looks like a coin stored for a long time in a bag with other double eagles and it has some heavy scrapes in the shield on the reverse and also obverse left field where the scrapes usually are when coins of this weight and size are stored together for a long period in a bag

 

the more i look at this coin the more the scrapes bother me

 

but this is me i am rather picky

 

 

 

again i have not seen this coin in hand only going by photos and i am NOT bidding on this coin and i am NOT representing anyone on this coin

 

and PLEASE see my signature line below

 

 

[yonico]

I have no problem with this coin in AU58 holder..

It's a little dirty, yes, but seems like very light rubs on the high points, and luster is there (seen easily on the reverse).

If I bought it raw, I would probably price it at AU55 price level, since although it is not the ugliest 58, it is also not the best looking one (in my eyes).

[O mint bug]

link is ha.com

 

Then click departments, then U.S. coins, select DEs. You can type $20 1852 O and it should come up along with all the others. Does not stand up to the one you sold. I gather it was a while ago to get that price for a clean ( no bad bag marks) coin and good eye appeal. That is a nice coin. Thanks for posting it. Type in $20 1854O and check out the one that is to be auctioned this weekend.

 

 

Out of my league I mean way out. I bet that coin brings over $500k. Don't think there is one graded higher than 55.

[O mint bug]

It is the one ha.com is auctioning off this weekend is the coin I am referring to. I always look at the obverse very close. The bag marks are in terrible places and are deep. marks on the face are real killers. As far as grade the wear on the hair and high points on the face on liberty are excessive for this grade. Reverse on DEs is to be considered but the obverse is the ' money side " and this one has been in more than a few pockets. Compare the wear on the hair on high points to the one posted above.

 

NGC and PCGS are not perfect but I strongly believe they are the best thing that has happened to collectors, especially coins when a few points means thousands of dollars. Just don't agree with this grade and would pass as being picky is a wise thing to practice. Some day we or one of our heirs will sell every coin in our collection and the picky collectors and/or their kids that don't just buy a grade will win in the end.

 

Just look at the price that posted above1858O AU 58 brought and that one seems to fit the grade. I sure do like quality coins as I love the history, the hobby and they are a great way to defeat inflation and build wealth. The track record on these coins is very impressive. I sure would pick up the above 58 O at or near the price realized but those days are gone.

[jom]

I don't think Heritage is auctioning an 1852-O THIS weekend. The coin, linked above by Nutmeg, will be sold around the 23rd of this month...if that is the one you are referring to.

 

jom

[James_OldeTowne]

If this were a "GTG", I would have guessed AU-55 from those photos. However, I LOVE the "look" of it.

[BillJones]

The coin is original which is a big plus, but I see a lot of rub in the fields and on Ms Liberty's cheek. The coin looks like an AU-53, maybe 55 on a generous day, it is not an AU-58. An AU-58 should make you debate about a Mint State grade. There is no debate here.

[DaveG]

O mint bug,

 

The coin you're referring to isn't being auctioned until April 23.

 

Bidding opens this weekend, though.

 

I stand by my comments about the coin, which is to see it in person. The "bag marks" and wear you may be seeing in the image may not look the same in person.

[GoldFinger1969]

OK, considering I have no interest and no financial ability to buy an 1852-O coin, this was a really useful thread. O-Mint, thanks for creating it.

 

The quality of the pictures -- when enlarged -- and their clarity was outstanding. I was really able to ID alot of what you were talking about. While I have some questions, I definitely saw alot of what you guys saw and CLEARLY saw what differentiates a Mint State coin in the low-to-mid 60's from the AU crowd (I am talking about the PCGS-graded coin pics here, NOT the other coin -- which can't be the same one, right?):

 

http://coins.ha.com/c/lot-image.zx?saleNo=1204&lotNo=5789&lotIdNo=26023&inventoryNo=&id=11134732.

 

Please spare my novice-like observations, but I think I'm starting to see things I didn't a few months ago so my questions/observations include these:

 

(1) ON THE OBVERSE....I take it the real killers are those DEEP GASHES that Liberty is looking at, directly to the left of her eye ? Any idea how those came about -- is that just a bad case of 2 coins colliding strongly and making deeper marks on one another ?

 

(2) OBVERSE: There are lots of light marks, those are bag marks, right ? Compared to my MS-65 Saints they seem to be pretty much all over the face of the coin, in both the fields and on the device (Liberty's face). Many are not even identified individually, they kind of mesh into squiggly lines (to the right of the back of Liberty's head). So it's the number of these light bag marks that takes this out of the Mint State category, as opposed to my Saints which had some marks but which I could count individually (maybe 5-10) as opposed to those here (a few dozen it looks like), right?

 

(3) REVERSE: The entire right wing of the eagle (on the left side of the coin) seems to have been 'smoothed over' -- unless that's the coin slab ? -- and that's a major negative, right ? Lots of light bag marks in the fields....and some whitish-blotches at 7 and 9 o'clock (unless they're on the coin slab). Is this correct ?

 

Question 1: What causes those blackish-marks on the obverse ? Or is that lighting shining through the slab ?

 

Question 2: Did they ever consider increasing the non-gold portion of the coins to reduce wear-and-tear which also would have made bag marks and other dents less noticeable/deep/big?

 

Great thread....hopefully I'm staring to pick up on some of this stuff, as Mark said in his thread about looking at enough coins and recognizing what counts and what doesn't in grading. (thumbs u

[Nutmeg Coin]

Goldfinger, I would recommend you check out Doug Winters' site on the real market in better date gold: http://raregoldcoins.com/

 

 

[GoldFinger1969]

Goldfinger, I would recommend you check out Doug Winters' site on the real market in better date gold: http://raregoldcoins.com/

Got it bookmarked, thanks Nut. (thumbs u

[GoldFinger1969]

Any comments on my observations on the marks on the Obverse & Reverse ?

[O mint bug]

Internet bidding started Friday4/4. Final auction (live) is later this month. It is on page one of the DEs shown. My idea of an au 58 coin is one that has very little evidence of circulation, bag marks excluded. However they sure do get included when determining price as eye appeal is a must in buying a coin, especially a rare one.

I would put this one I the lower end of AU and CAC AU 58? NO WAY. So much for the science of grading. Guess this is why so many coins get sent in several times until the grade desired is obtained or the owner gives up. Cost on a coin this expensive is very high to resubmit. $150 I think if value is over $10K, which is what this coin would easily bring if. Heritage does not do the coins any favors at first glance but if you click on the data below the coin a second page will show up. You can enlarge the coin significantly and see all you need to. This is one I would pass on AU 53 or what ever as it was graded.. It is a DE but the most common O mint type one and one of the lesser examples.

[GoldFinger1969]

O-Mint, how would you grade the coin ?

 

To the other posters, do you have a grade and what are your major pluses/minuses on the coin. Do you agree or disagree with my comments above ?

[CaptHenway]

Marginal AU from the photos - would have to see in person. But, looks better than those scruffy MS-60-62 coins that abound.

 

I have no problem net grading it UP to an AU-50 for originality.