Which way would you collect gold coins?

[CSdot]

Assuming you have given this any thought, how do you (or would you) put your money into gold:

 

(1) uncirculated American gold eagles and buffaloes (basically just filling up mint tubes);

(2) proof American gold eagles and buffaloes in mint packaging;

(3) graded Ameican gold eagles and buffaloes (paying a premium for PF70UC and first issue);

(4) raw Saints and Liberty $20;

(5) TPG mint state various date Saint $20s and Liberty $20s;

(6) TPG mint state $1-10 pre-1934 US gold (last generation Liberties and Indians);

(7) saving up to buy high value TPG slabbed late 1700s or early 1800s numismatic gold, or even Dalonaga or Charlotte gold (think of the coins that make everyone go wow when members posts them);

(8) a mix of the above;

(9) other (please state).

 

Seems to me number 7 would have the most upside, but would take real discipline, and confidence, to save up and drop that sort of money ($10,000+) per coin.

[DaveG]

I prefer US gold coins from the 1840s and 1850s because in that period enough of them were minted that people actually saw them in commerce and they were used in commerce because there wasn't any reliable paper money.

 

If I could afford it, I'd buy some pre-1834 gold coins.

 

I'd probably buy TPG coins because they're more liquid.

 

I'd also buy an assortment of sovereigns, 20 Franc pieces, etc. just because they're fun.

 

If I wanted to buy some gold just to profit from swings in the metal, I'd buy some GAEs.

[James_OldeTowne]

Do you mean... collect as a series? or do you mean just accumulate gold?

 

For accumulating gold, it's best in my experience to buy simple 1-ounce bars, but if you want minimal numismatic interest also, buy krugerrands, maple leafs, or American eagles.

 

If you want to "collect" something, do modern gold fractionals, since those give you a realistic chance of being able to actually complete a series. I would collect them raw, personally, buying only from a reputable dealer.

[GoldFinger1969]

Assuming you have given this any thought, how do you (or would you) put your money into gold:

 

I'll tell you what I do NOW and what I would do if I won Lotto and had plenty of $$$ to put into gold/precious metals.

 

(1) uncirculated American gold eagles and buffaloes (basically just filling up mint tubes);

 

If I was looking to make a large $$$ investment in gold, that would be the way to go. You want a liquid medium and gold coins are the best, even better than ingots, bars, or jewelry. I would probably put 75-90% of my 'safe gold' money into these investments.

 

The markups are minimal, liquidity is great, and you can designate 1 or 2 coins for 'touching' without blowing any numismatic premium or worrying about scratches, contamination, etc.

 

(2) proof American gold eagles and buffaloes in mint packaging;

 

I'd consider these quasi-numismatic. I might buy 1 or 2 here or there...but would NOT buy in the quantity of raw gold coins because even though the premiums are much less than MS-70 and PL and "1st Strike" stuff, you still are paying a premium for 1 ounce of gold.

 

Again, I'd want a few for show -- but not dozens as an investment.

 

(3) graded Ameican gold eagles and buffaloes (paying a premium for PF70UC and first issue);

 

Again, as with (2), it'd be 1 or 2 or 3 of these....basically for show. The premiums get high here (100-200%) so it's gotta be something YOU LIKE rather than as an investment because even if you tell me the premium is likely to hold and/or expand over time, you never know.

 

(4) raw Saints and Liberty $20;

 

Minor premiums to gold content which is nice, but if I want gold at minor premiums I'd buy current U.S. and other coins (Kruggerand, Maple Leaf, Buffalo, Peso, Philharmonic, etc.). What I would do is maybe have 1 or 2 'cheapos' that I could handle and hold, something I would not go with a UNC coin or a coin that was slabbed (and presumably graded high and costing alot more $$$).

 

But if I have a Saint or Liberty purchased for a slight premium to bullion/melt, I'd be OK with 2-3 of these, and being able to hold/touch 'em.

 

(5) TPG mint state various date Saint $20s and Liberty $20s;

 

My current passion (which really needs me to win Lotto to enjoy ! ). I currently collect Saints (starting out) and would look to buy more. But I am not going to consider this my "investment in gold" because I consider this A HOBBY.

 

I agree that high-quality Saints and Liberty's are likely to increase in price over time assuming gold increases (and maybe even if it is flattish)....but as the premiums for the coins I want (MS-65's for commons, MS-62 or better for tougher-to-get coins from $2,000 - $4,000) is anywhere from 50-200% over the price of gold, you have to take that into consideration. And of course once you move into the tougher years to collect and/or mint marks, you can easily talk about premiums to bullion of 500% - 5,000%. Or more !!

 

Again....I always ASSUME that premiums can go lower or even disappear, however unlikely/impossible that is. Maybe you need to sell your gold at a major economic or financial dislocation like March 2009 and you can't get bids for anything but modest premiums over bullion melt, even for TPG high-quality coins.

For that reason, I always separate the Bullion Investment vs. Numismatic Hobby in my mind.

 

(6) TPG mint state $1-10 pre-1934 US gold (last generation Liberties and Indians);

 

Have none currently, might get 1-2 just for curiosity sake if I had enough $$$ for my regular bullion and Saint/Liberty coins.

 

(7) saving up to buy high value TPG slabbed late 1700s or early 1800s numismatic gold, or even Dalonaga or Charlotte gold (think of the coins that make everyone go wow when members posts them);

 

Again, might want 1 or 2 as a conversation piece, but know very little about those coins/that Mint except that it went out of business in the 1800's as the gold ran out that supplied them.

 

(8) a mix of the above;

 

I would do a mix but I would probably be 75% bullion (and bullion proof and bullion slabs via TPG) and the other 25% Saints/Libertys.

 

(9) other (please state).

 

I see foreign gold coins from time-to-time -- Austria, Ducats, gold commemorative sets from the 1980's that today sell for barely above melt (i.e., Queen Elizabeth II stuff) -- and might be 1 or 2 here or there.

 

Seems to me number 7 would have the most upside, but would take real discipline, and confidence, to save up and drop that sort of money ($10,000+) per coin.

 

Could be, not my area of expertise. I don't and can't spend full-time on this hobby so what time and focus I do have is largely spend on the Saint-Gaudens and Liberty $20 Double Eagles. And the $$$ commitment I make to them right now is very limited given I only work PT, unfortunately.

 

Anyway, that's my strategy currently and in an ideal world it would expand only slightly.

[Houston Investor]

Slabbed only - mostly anything I like I can acquire for BV+25% or less (not an absolute). I have been buying a lot of world gold plus some reasonably priced US issues to retail. Many of these pieces, especially 19th century world gold are way undervalued and a fantastic super deal. I just recently got a fantastic deal on a slabbed NGC AU58 20 Lib off Ebay. Another pickup was a super $2.50 Lib in NGC AU58. A NGC MS 66 19th Century Netherlands 10 Gulden was a super pickup as was a super France $20 Franc Angel in NGC 64 . A modern world gold issue with only 10 graded by NGC was another super pickup. An NGC MS 66 Mexico 5 Pesos from the Samazko gold hoard was another super buy. As far as TPG all my acquisitions are PCGS / NGC. The NGC world coin and currency guides are a super reference with links to population, auction and retail data.

 

I put these in my case at shows for retail and its drawing a lot of traffic to my table. With gold now in a bull market I feel its a win win situation. Many of the people walking in the show stopping by my table may not have the money for a gold coin but they have been buyers of world currency.

 

I think coins like $20 Saints in MS64 / $20 Libs in MS63 are a good buy right now along with anything nice under say $500. CDN Ask for a $20 Saint in MS 64 is only around $100 more than an AU58. I thinks that's a good place to go if someone has the pocket. Another super deal are $10 Indians AU58 or MS63, these premiums have come down vs Libs compared to where they used to be.

[jom]

I would collect them raw, personally, buying only from a reputable dealer.

 

As would I...I'd want the original packaging as well!

 

I also have my eye on a couple of early gold coin types but other than that I think the modern $5 pieces, either proof or unc, would be kind of cool.

 

jom

[GoldFinger1969]

Many of these pieces, especially 19th century world gold are way undervalued and a fantastic super deal.

Can you give us examples and where do you find them ?

 

Also, define 'cheap' -- is this a market you have followed for years and prices are 3-5% too low, or are they 20-25% too low ?

 

I just recently got a fantastic deal on a slabbed NGC AU58 20 Lib off Ebay. Another pickup was a super $2.50 Lib in NGC AU58.

 

Was the former a $20 Double Eagle -- can I ask how much you paid ? Was there a reason you were able to get a good deal on Ebay -- just luck, didn't come with a Money Back Guarantee, mediocre pics, etc. Were you the only bidder ?

 

Many of the people walking in the show stopping by my table may not have the money for a gold coin but they have been buyers of world currency.

You mean they can buy a fraction of an ounce of gold, and that's what the (gold) world currencies often come in ?

 

I think coins like $20 Saints in MS64 / $20 Libs in MS63 are a good buy right now along with anything nice under say $500. CDN Ask for a $20 Saint in MS 64 is only around $100 more than an AU58. I thinks that's a good place to go if someone has the pocket. Another super deal are $10 Indians AU58 or MS63, these premiums have come down vs Libs compared to where they used to be.

That's hard to believe -- I don't doubt you -- that for only $100 more you can jump 6 grades for a Saint (common). Usually you can only jump 1-2 grades as you approach MS-60. And the bigger jumps usually happen at MS-63 to MS-65 and then it goes parabolic at MS-66 and higher (for the commons; it happens with lower grades for the hard-to-get years or mint marks).

[wdrob]

 

(6) TPG mint state $1-10 pre-1934 US gold (last generation Liberties and Indians);

(7) saving up to buy high value TPG slabbed late 1700s or early 1800s numismatic gold, or even Dalonaga or Charlotte gold (think of the coins that make everyone go wow when members posts them);

 

No question in my mind. ^^

 

 

 

[CSdot]

(6) TPG mint state $1-10 pre-1934 US gold (last generation Liberties and Indians);

(7) saving up to buy high value TPG slabbed late 1700s or early 1800s numismatic gold, or even Dalonaga or Charlotte gold (think of the coins that make everyone go wow when members posts them);

 

No question in my mind. ^^

 

 

 

Intellectually I know this is the right answer, but there it is a lot easier to drop $2,000 on a Saint for my set per month than dropping $25,000 on a real nice coin once a year.

[wdrob]

Very true, however "high value" is certainly a subjective term. High Value for me might be no where near $25k.

 

I needed to edit since that seemed to read as though I were very well off. Not the case. $5k might be High Value for me. That is what I meant.

 

 

[orifdoc]

Speaking of upside, bullion *could* double or triple in value in a very short time frame. Early US gold certainly will not. Over the long haul, early gold has done well. Is it now fully valued? Hard to say. 'Course bullion can tank too - purely speculative.

 

For me, there is something to like in each of these scenarios, but option 7 has very little to do with gold and everything to do with pure numismatic (collector) value.

 

Low-premium pre-33 gold is attractive to me because even lower-grade examples are so cool. For pure stacking purposes, find the lowest premium possible. Plane-Jane Kruggerands (from reputable sources) do this nicely. Just make sure you take physical delivery.

[CSdot]

wdrob,

 

No problem, and no reason to explain any further. I apologize for jumping to the high dollar conclusion. Before I posted that I scanned what Mint State TPG stabbed 1795-1830 gold goes for on eBay. Amazing how much dough some numismatist can afford to throw around.

[wdrob]

Well yes and no.

 

In order for me to ever get a Dahlonega minted coin that is not in a details holder is going to be hard and expensive. I plan to just wait that one out until I hit that one at the right time with the right amount of money.

 

Now if money were not a great concern in my collecting pursuit, I could pick up a higher grade Dahlonega right now for just over 15K so your assumption was not unfounded.

 

I have not figured out exactly how I am going to go about reaching this goal. It seems to be a work in progress.

 

You got to remember; I have a metal detector!!!!

 

[BillJones]

I have been a gold type set collector for many years. I completed the eight piece type set plus the three gold dollars when I was in high school. Later I finally got the Three Dollar Gold Piece. Then I started on the older types. Along the way I assembled a $2.50 Indian set. Finally I finished the entire gold type set. For modern coins I have type sets for the Proof and Unc. silver eagles and all of the gold commemoratives. Now I'm working on a set of Type I gold dollars, and Charlotte and Dahlonega type sets. So I guess you might say that I collect a little bit of everything in U.S. Gold.

[Walkerfan]

A mix of #s 5 & 7

[CSdot]

I have been a gold type set collector for many years. I completed the eight piece type set plus the three gold dollars when I was in high school. Later I finally got the Three Dollar Gold Piece. Then I started on the older types. Along the way I assembled a $2.50 Indian set. Finally I finished the entire gold type set. For modern coins I have type sets for the Proof and Unc. silver eagles and all of the gold commemoratives. Now I'm working on a set of Type I gold dollars, and Charlotte and Dahlonega type sets. So I guess you might say that I collect a little bit of everything in U.S. Gold.

 

I have noticed your postings and commend you on having such beautiful coins.

[michael]

ALL COINS AS PER BELOW NEED TO HAVE AMAZING, MONSTER MOJO, GA-GA KILLER EYE APPEAL

 

9)A 1876 gold dollars ms 64 65 pcgs cac or non cac that WILL sticker at cac

with deep orangey original toning heavily prooflike++ to the point of dmpl (pcgs does not designate pl or dmpl as of today possibly in the future ) the rarest most undervalued gold dollar post 1875 accourding to david akers and doug winter

 

B 1860 three dollar gold very choice au 55 58 with decent original surfaces pcgs cac or non cac that WILL sticker at cac

 

C post 1899 10 dollar gold pieces pcgs cac with cameo++ to deep cameo devices and very choice to gem proof 64 65 with deep orange peel and original coloration

 

D original orangey coloration with great lustre never dipped crusty common dates ms 64 saints/20 libs type 3 pcgs cac or non cac that WILL sticker at cac

 

E original orangey coloration with great lustre never dipped crusty common date 10 indians pcgs cac or non cac that WILL sticker at cac

 

F pcgs proof 70 deep cameo gold american one ounce eagles with no spots stains

common dated pieces about 30% over spot give or take everyone should have one; just a stunningly beautiful coin

 

G pcgs and cac ms64 65 pre 1902 common date quarter eagles original never having been dipped and semi prooflike surfaces with great coloration

 

H pcgs/ngc proof 70 deep cameo/ultra cameo 1999-w washington death bi-centennial 5 dollar gold piece about 30% over spot or thereabouts just a really cool looking historical coin no spots stains blah blah blah.......

 

i am sure there are many but these are just off the top of my head for value and opportunity i guess time will tell

 

I

 

 

[CSdot]

D original orangey coloration with great lustre never dipped crusty common dates ms 64 saints/20 libs type 3 pcgs cac or non cac that WILL sticker at cac

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a 1908 WITH Motto $20 Saint Gaudens Double Eagle with a nice orangey color and great luster that I cherry picked at a local shop recently. They had it priced as if it were the much more common WITHOUT motto $20 Saint Gaudens Double Eagle.

[Walkerfan]

D original orangey coloration with great lustre never dipped crusty common dates ms 64 saints/20 libs type 3 pcgs cac or non cac that WILL sticker at cac

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a 1908 WITH Motto $20 Saint Gaudens Double Eagle with a nice orangey color and great luster that I cherry picked at a local shop recently. They had it priced as if it were the much more common WITHOUT motto $20 Saint Gaudens Double Eagle.

 

Gorgeous Saint!! NICE PICK!! Love that date and type!!!

[GoldFinger1969]

I have been a gold type set collector for many years. I completed the eight piece type set plus the three gold dollars when I was in high school. Later I finally got the Three Dollar Gold Piece. Then I started on the older types. Along the way I assembled a $2.50 Indian set. Finally I finished the entire gold type set. For modern coins I have type sets for the Proof and Unc. silver eagles and all of the gold commemoratives. Now I'm working on a set of Type I gold dollars, and Charlotte and Dahlonega type sets. So I guess you might say that I collect a little bit of everything in U.S. Gold.

 

As Darth Vader said...."Impressive....most impressive."

[GoldFinger1969]

CS, what's the grade on that Saint ?

[CSdot]

MS-64, but it looks nicer than some 65s I have seen. In my registry set NGC lists it as a $4,250 coin. If if did go MS65, then NGC says it is worth $15,500. I suspect the TPG companies grade harder on coins with a big price jump to the next grade.

[Nutmeg Coin]

The problem is always going to be supply unless you want generic bullion or semi-numismatics. And with rare coins that are a great value it is going to depend whether you were at the right place at the right time, or spent enough hours looking, in which case the amount of energy you are going to expend may not correlate with your profit. If you buy from major dealers on their sites it will probably take quite a while to even break even.