My 1st St. Gaudens Purchase

[CSdot]

$2,800 for a MS65 1923D seems high based on my experience viewing eBay for the past year. I would have guessed $2,100 to be an okay price. I suspect the peanut gallery will chime in soon to tell us it is worth no more than $1,800, but I don't know where you readily find them for that price. Not sure if the CAC sticker is truly worth that much of a premium? I can say I have been unwilling to pay that much of a premium. I might pay an extra $100 (5%), but much more than that at this level and I go for the unstickered coin assuming it looks nice.

 

I ended up getting a 1923P for my set. Still a common Saint, but maybe a tad rarer than the 1923D. Similar to the 1914D being a tad rarer than the more common 1914S.

[GoldFinger1969]

Thanks CS...my understanding is that the 1923 is pretty common but NOT in MS-65 and higher. Big jump from MS-64 to MS-65. This is not the case with the 1923-D.

 

Regardless if a "D" should go for $1,800 or $2,100...the additional cost for the CAC on the MS-65 I saw yesterday was pretty rich. Again, I haven't seen any at dealers, shows, or online so it's tough to compare the MS-65 with a CAC to ones without.

[jtryka]

I don't think a 23-D in MS-65 is worth the premium, I know they are a little better in higher grades, but Akers still rated it as like 47th out of 53 in terms of rarity, even in high grades! The 23 is the tough one of the two in high grade, but why not go for just a better date? The 23-D has between 9,700 and 11,500 known, but why not look for a lower grade yet affordable one like the 09-D, with less than a thousand known? Or if you really want a high grade, get a 16-S, a much better date and not much difference in value? Just my thoughts, worth what you paid for them!

[jpcienkus]

There were 4 MS65 1923D sold via Heritage in the last 3 months and all of them were between $2200-$2300. Some lucky stiff got one for $1880 in January. None of them wore a CAC sticker. Doesn't mean they wouldn't pass, just sharing facts.

 

 

[GoldFinger1969]

I don't think a 23-D in MS-65 is worth the premium, I know they are a little better in higher grades, but Akers still rated it as like 47th out of 53 in terms of rarity, even in high grades! The 23 is the tough one of the two in high grade, but why not go for just a better date? The 23-D has between 9,700 and 11,500 known, but why not look for a lower grade yet affordable one like the 09-D, with less than a thousand known? Or if you really want a high grade, get a 16-S, a much better date and not much difference in value? Just my thoughts, worth what you paid for them!

 

A couple of thoughts:

 

(1) My ability to get ANY coin in MS-67 or higher will have to wait for better personal financial conditions. I'd like to get 1 or 2 super-high rated coins, but the price jump there is just too steep. MS-66's are possible for some commons. All my Saints are MS-65.

 

(2) I think I can get the 1923-D in MS-65 (sans CAC) if I am patient. The question is do I want to pay up for an MS-65 w/CAC or an MS-66. Either way, I am seeing them in the $2,800 - $3,100 range though I am not seeing any reason why the jump from regular MS-64's and Ms-65's should be that steep. There's enough supply (not the case for any Saint when you try for an MS-67 or higher).

 

(3) I like your 1909-D and 1916-S suggestions, a few others including Mark Feldt suggested the same. I just haven't seen any at my local dealers or shows, which is the only place I have bought expensive coins (so far).

[GoldFinger1969]

There were 4 MS65 1923D sold via Heritage in the last 3 months and all of them were between $2200-$2300. Some lucky stiff got one for $1880 in January. None of them wore a CAC sticker. Doesn't mean they wouldn't pass, just sharing facts.

 

Thanks JPC...is there a way to easily see past auction prices on those sites ? Sometimes I have trouble navigating around.

 

I paid about $1,825 for my 1924 and 1927 Saints.....if those are around the last few months prices paid at Heritage and other auctions, then I should be able to get some of the coins we discussed above if I am patient and/or look around.

 

I am sure I will get into auctions at Heritage and other places, just need to familiarize myself and learn the rules. Have only bought some $50 - $200 coins off Ebay, that's all.

[CSdot]

GF1969,

 

Here is a nice looking MS65 PCGS graded 1916S I just came across on eBay for $3,300 or BIN. Not much in the way of recent activity on this eBay member's account, which gives me pause.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1916-S-20-SAINT-GAUDENS-PCGS-MS65-GOLD-DOUBLE-EAGLE-NICE-/271416740358?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3f31b2ca06

[GoldFinger1969]

GF1969,Here is a nice looking MS65 PCGS graded 1916S I just came across on eBay for $3,300 or BIN. Not much in the way of recent activity on this eBay member's account, which gives me pause.http://www.ebay.com/itm/1916-S-20-SAINT-GAUDENS-PCGS-MS65-GOLD-DOUBLE-EAGLE-NICE-/271416740358?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3f31b2ca06

 

I saw that, thanks CS.....that's where the 'tamper-proof' slab is supposed to give me comfort in buying if I were to bid/BIN.

 

I believe that's the earliest slab from PCGS, 1986 or 1987.

[CSdot]

My concern is not with the slab, but rather with the fact that the seller hasn't used his eBay account since 2012. Whenever I see something like that, I worry about hijacked accounts and never seeing my money or my purchase again. It does look like the seller's history supports a belief that he was into coins at some point in the past (2008).

[jpcienkus]

There were 4 MS65 1923D sold via Heritage in the last 3 months and all of them were between $2200-$2300. Some lucky stiff got one for $1880 in January. None of them wore a CAC sticker. Doesn't mean they wouldn't pass, just sharing facts.

 

Thanks JPC...is there a way to easily see past auction prices on those sites ? Sometimes I have trouble navigating around.

 

I paid about $1,825 for my 1924 and 1927 Saints.....if those are around the last few months prices paid at Heritage and other auctions, then I should be able to get some of the coins we discussed above if I am patient and/or look around.

 

I am sure I will get into auctions at Heritage and other places, just need to familiarize myself and learn the rules. Have only bought some $50 - $200 coins off Ebay, that's all.

 

It takes awhile to learn the site as there is a ton of information.

 

http://www.ha.com/?ic=task-www

 

On the main page, middle box Titled "Sell with a Trusted Expert" is another light grey box labeled "search auction archive". Click on that and then choose the second link "Coin....etc"

 

Once you arrive there, the left side panel has all the detail you need to narrow your search down to a specific coin, year, mint mark, designation and whether it has a CAC sticker or not.

 

If you have any questions, just let me know.

[GoldFinger1969]

The dealer who sold me the 1927 Saint MS-65 got another one in the last few weeks. But even though it was another PCGS MS-65, he bought it as lower-graded and is selling it as lower-graded.

 

I think he said the Grey Sheet price is $1,925 and he's asking $1,725. I paid right between them for my nice MS-65.

 

He said it had alot more bag marks and it did look very scuffed-up for an MS-65. Next time I will get some pictures and with my 1927 pics as a comparison, maybe we can see if the graders at PCGS were in a very generous mood that day. He wasn't even sure it was an MS-64.

[CSdot]

And there I was hoping I was about to open a post saying you added a new date to your set, with a picture. Maybe next time.

[GoldFinger1969]

And there I was hoping I was about to open a post saying you added a new date to your set, with a picture. Maybe next time.

Waiting for the Westchester or Parsippany Shows, CS ! (thumbs u

 

Maybe then......we'll see.

[GoldFinger1969]

Sweet !!!

 

Got my copy of Roger's "FROM MINE TO MINT" today. No hard copies ? I didn't realize it was only available in soft cover.

 

Anyway, looks very lengthy...gonna have to set up some serious weekend hours to knock it off. It's on the on-deck circle once I finish Bowers' and Akers' books on Double Eagles.

[mintcollector]

This was by far one of the best threads I read on collecting 'Saints.' I am sure a lot of collectors who pursue these coins (or who are thinking about it) thank all the knowledgeable contributors to this thread. I know I do.

 

Kind Regards,

 

'mint'

[GoldFinger1969]

This was by far one of the best threads I read on collecting 'Saints.' I am sure a lot of collectors who pursue these coins (or who are thinking about it) thank all the knowledgeable contributors to this thread. I know I do. Kind Regards,'mint'

Thanks, Mint !! I am glad I was able to start it and thanks to all the fine posters here who offered compliments on my 1st Saint purchase and lots of really good posts.

 

It's nice to know that not all threads here involve bickering back-and-forth...there really are some useful threads here for the novice as well as the veteran collector. (thumbs u

[RWB]

From Mine to Mint was only issued in paperback with the CD. A hardcover edition would have cost a lot more.

[GoldFinger1969]

From Mine to Mint was only issued in paperback with the CD. A hardcover edition would have cost a lot more.

Not a problem, I'll just be very careful with it.

[GoldFinger1969]

$3,500 For A Saint -- What Would You Buy ?

 

Friend of mine may go to the Parsippany show this Sunday and wants to spend $3,000 - $4,000 (tops) on a real good Saint-Gaudens. Probably not starting a collection, he has bullion, just wants to buy 1 really top-notch coin.

 

I am torn between recommending going REALLY HIGH on grade for a plain common, like MS66 or MS67 on a 1924, 1927, or 1928.

 

Or maybe MS65 for a mint mark coin or something with a story like the Wells Fargo Hoard or the No Motto coins. Don't think I can get MS66 or MS67 for those given his budget.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions, Saint collectors ? Mark ? Bill ? CSdot ? Walker ? RWB ?

[RWB]

There are three distinct design types for Saint-Gaudens $20s: Type 1 - Short Rays, No Motto; Type 2 - Long Rays, No Motto; and Type 3 - Long Rays, With Motto.

 

Short Rays, No Motto - 1907-1908 (incl. 'Gillio Wells Fargo') Soft detail, mushy stars, etc.

Long Rays, No Motto - 1908 new obv w/sharper details, same rev as short rays.

Long Rays, With Motto - 1908-1933 Long Ray obv with new motto rev. Sharper rev.

 

For the highest quality and nicest looking single coin, go for one of the Philadelphia Mint pieces from the 1920s. 1927 is a bit more popular than other dates I suspect because collectors can imagine a little D mintmark above the date.

 

MS67 or MS68 will do.

 

The Type 1 pieces are very common and look nice until they are compared with the Type 3 - then they look soft and fuzzy.

 

If having or not having the motto is important, that further constrains the buying decision.

[Nutmeg Coin]

Ken Fagone usually has a good supply of type gold at wholesale there; a dealer I know has a 1907 $20 Saint in MS64 PCGS OH, they bid high though around $2100.

[GoldFinger1969]

I saw a REALLY NICE 1923-D (actually, saw 2 or 3 but one caught my eye). This one the guy had jacked up the price claiming the colors/toning of the gold in the back made it a $3,500 coin !

 

Saint Experts....please chime in. I know the 1923-D has exceptional eye-appeal, and I have no doubt that the guy was over-selling the coloration/toning (more pronounced on the reverse, IMO). Center of each side had nice luster/shine. But still.....$2,800 to buy and claiming it's a steal for a coin that's worth $3,500 ? Who or what says that toned/color changed Saints are worth a premium, let alone a 40% premium to FMV (based on what he said it was worth, not his lower asking price) ?

What would you pay for an MS-65 1923-D Saint as described above ?

[Nutmeg Coin]

There is no way that "special" toning unless there is a track record of similar items selling for crazy money, would be worth over Greysheet. Even the best holders with CAC stickers often don't bring over GS bid. Plus no matter how outstanding a coin looks and how slick the sales gimmicks, there are usually dozens available for less if you look long enough. Not in this economy would I pay premiums like that. Hetty Green said always sleep on business deals.

[GoldFinger1969]

There is no way that "special" toning unless there is a track record of similar items selling for crazy money, would be worth over Greysheet. Even the best holders with CAC stickers often don't bring over GS bid. Plus no matter how outstanding a coin looks and how slick the sales gimmicks, there are usually dozens available for less if you look long enough. Not in this economy would I pay premiums like that. Hetty Green said always sleep on business deals.

Sound advice, Nutmeg, I agree. For a unique coin that you have been looking a while you might pay up. But for a semi-common, it pays to wait a few weeks or longer.