Question Regarding Mint State Grading

[GoldFinger1969]

Greetings, new member and I have been an on-and-off coin collector for close to 40 years. Just gotten more active the last few years.

 

My question concerns the grading system. I know it is not an exact system, and I know that different grading systems and different graders can differ sometimes by 1 or even 2 grades. Same with the retail public.

 

But I am surprised when I see some pretty obvious MS gold coins -- I am talking generally MS 63-65 -- with very obvious blemishes (sometimes tiny black spots and they don't look like gold/copper discoloration) which are easily noticeable.

 

I am wondering if something else is compensating for these obvious negatives -- like maybe no-wear on the high points of the coin's relief -- to help get such a high MS rating ?

 

I would think if you can easily -- without even looking hard -- see blemishes, hard scratches, or blotches that you would be hard-pressed to go over an MS 62 or MS 63 score. But I see lots of stuff on Ebay, online, and at coin shops with MS 64 and MS 65 with these imperfections and I am surprised they are that highly rated.

 

I guess what I am saying is: if the rest of the coin is MS 66 ot MS 67 or even MS 68 (unlikely), wouldn't you think very noticeable blemishes (multiple ones, too) would knock it down more than MS 65 or MS 64 ?

 

I'm wondering if this is the 'gradeflation' I have read about in recent years that seemed absent when I first started in the 1970's.

[DaveG]

Well, it seems like the obvious answer to your question is: "If what you're seeing would be considered negatives by a TPG grader, then, yes, something else is compensating for the negatives."

 

As far as "gradeflation" goes, you'd probably have to talk to someone who has been a skilled grader for the past 40 years or so.

[GoldFinger1969]

Dave, thanks for the feedback and comments. I would say at first glance, for the most part the rest of the coin(s) are simply not perfect enough to compensate for several -- not just 1 -- very easily ID'd imperfection.

 

I think that the rest of the coin(s) -- without the blemishes -- are OK to rate MS 64 or MS 65, but when you take into account the marks it's gotta knock them down at least 2 notches. The rest of these coins, while very very nice, are not like they've been preserved for decades: they show some wear and tear, some luster (or most of it) is gone, some details are flattened/smoothed, etc. The kind of stuff you see in MS 61-65 coins, for sure.

 

When you add in the obvious blemishes, that's what confuses me.

 

As an example: I have to strive REALLY hard to tell the difference between some of these newer MS 70 and MS 69 slabbed coins. It's like they are looking for a tiny blemish barely visible under 5x or 10x magnification and that knocks it down from 70 to 69 (or 69 to 68). Given 10 seconds to tell which is the higher rated coin, I bet most of us couldn't. My point is, the difference is very minute -- and that's NOT the case with the lower grading in the MS scale.

 

It seems like once you've moved away from MS 70 (or even 69) perfection, it takes bigger blemishes to move you down further and further 1 full notch.

 

As a comparison, I'm also a baseball card collector and there you will find near-perfect Gem Mint cards (razor-sharp corners, perfectly centered, glossy photo, etc.) which have a very noticeable 'birthmark' from printing (a black dot, smudged facial features, etc.). When you see these being offered, the seller always notes that the rest of the card is near perfect/Gem Mint except for....blah blah blah.

 

I don't see that with these MS 65/64 coins which tells me that while the rest of the coins are very very nice, they're not near-perfect MS 70/69/68 and being brought down 2-3 notches by the imperections. They're more like mid-60's and they might be getting dinged 1 notch, if that.

 

I do note that many of these appear to have been slabbed/graded over a decade ago when the hobby wasn't as hot, I wonder if they got re-graded if they might not go down 1 or 2 notches.

[kranky]

Some thoughts... superior luster and strike might compensate for the spot(s) - and if a particular coin typically comes softly struck, a normal strike can be a big factor in the grade; or perhaps the spots developed (or worsened) after the coins were slabbed many years ago; or perhaps the spots were "as made" and didn't factor as strongly into the grade.

 

I think a coin that was otherwise 66 might only drop a point due to a spot, depending on the price spread between 66 and 65.