Is a re-punched mintmark (RPM) a variety or an error?

[Kurtdog]

I like to think of it as an error as there's no intent to change the design. What do you think of that? I'll tell you where that definition gets me into trouble, though, in an over-punched mintmark (OMM), or, worse still, in an over-date (OD). I still haven't decided what I want to call those.

[wdrob]

 

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

 

Why can't it be called both and either one still be an accurate description?

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Varieties are generally considered to be differences in the die. Thus, a DDO, DDR, RPM, OMM, OD, etc., are all considered varieties. Yes, they may have been caused by an error on the part of the die-setter, but it is technically considered a variety. Any variation in the DIE is a variety.

 

Any other anomaly which occurred at the mint is considered an error. These may be planchet errors (for example, "clips" or incomplete planchets), or they may be striking errors (double struck, capped die, broadstruck, etc). These are all errors.

 

Precise use of terminology helps avoid confusion. Errors and varieties are not the same thing, and the terms are not interchangeable.

[Kurtdog]

Physics, not bad, I think I like that definition. Just help me with this. A die crack would be a variety. Right?

[physics-fan3.14]

Physics, not bad, I think I like that definition. Just help me with this. A die crack would be a variety. Right?

 

Technically, yes. However, die cracks are rarely collected as varieties unless they are major, or unusual in appearance. They more often serve as identifiers for a die that may have a more significant variety (no two dies crack in exactly the same way).

[RWB]

I'd call it a production error.

A variety is an intentional change in the design, such as 1913 nickels.

 

(However, common usage is in line with previous comments, above: a manufacturing error that creates a distinctive variety unique to one die.)

[Conder101]

A repunched mntmark or overmntmark would be a DIE error, but the coins produced from that die would be a variety, A die crack is really neither an error or a variety, it s a die stage. A coin struck from the die before it cracked and one struck after it cracked are both still the same variety, one early stage. one later stage.

[Kurtdog]

A repunched mntmark or overmntmark would be a DIE error, but the coins produced from that die would be a variety, A die crack is really neither an error or a variety, it s a die stage. A coin struck from the die before it cracked and one struck after it cracked are both still the same variety, one early stage. one later stage.

Now that I think I like the best. What took you so long?

[rmpsrpms]

To be even more precise, a "Variety" is exactly what RWB stated, ie an intentional design change within a series. RPMs, OMMs, Doubled Dies, RPDs, etc are "Die Varieties" because they occur on individual dies as part of the process of making the die, and thus happen on every coin struck from that die. As the die progresses from VEDS-->EDS-->MDS-->LDS-->VLDS it will wear, develop die cracks and breaks, etc and each new anomaly creates a new "Stage" as Conder101 stated.

 

I'm a Die Variety guy, not an error guy, so I won't even try to state error terminology precisely. What I can say is if there is more than one of something (exactly the same), it's not an error, and I bet even that will be disputed...Ray

[cpm9ball]

What I can say is if there is more than one of something (exactly the same), it's not an error, and I bet even that will be disputed...Ray

 

Yep! You're right about the dispute. The Kennedy Half on my sig line is one of two known, and it is classified as an error.

 

Chris

[wdrob]

 

Well what would something like a 1900-O C/C be? An error or a variety OR possibly both?

 

When you come down to it, the only reason there was an 'O' over the remnants of a 'CC' was a mint error by mint employees by not completely removing the previous MM. No?

 

But if I understand it correctly the 1900-O C/C is classified as a Variety isn't it?

 

 

 

 

 

[RWB]

"...the only reason there was an 'O' over the remnants of a 'CC' was a mint error by mint employees by not completely removing the previous MM. No?"

 

Well.....kind of....

The dies with a "CC" mint mark had to be repaired first. Then the "O" was punched into these repaired dies. In some instances, part of the repair failed, and this created the faint outlines and remnants of the original "CC." Each of the known reverse O/CC dies is different because they were repaired individually and failed in unique patterns. During use, some of the failed repair became more or less evident as is clear from examining many examples of each die’s coins.

 

 

[rmpsrpms]

Yep! You're right about the dispute. The Kennedy Half on my sig line is one of two known, and it is classified as an error.

 

Chris

 

I knew it! And of course it is an error. This is why I didn't even try to be precise with the error terminology. "Errors" cover a lot of ground.

 

But if I understand it correctly the 1900-O C/C is classified as a Variety isn't it?

 

It is a Die Variety.

 

 

[Conder101]

The Kennedy Half on my sig line is one of two known, and it is classified as an error.

It's an error because it is probably not exactly like the other one. Chances are VERY good they come from two different die pairs.

 

What took you so long?

I'm usually only here for a few minutes each morning passing through reading threads and responding. Then I'm usually gone for 24 hours and I may not drop by at all from Saturday til Monday morning.

[cpm9ball]

The Kennedy Half on my sig line is one of two known, and it is classified as an error.

It's an error because it is probably not exactly like the other one. Chances are VERY good they come from two different die pairs.

 

You may be right! I may be crazy. But, it just may be a ..................

 

Chris

[DWLange]

In answer to the original question, here are some good articles that address that very topic:

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/VPExplained.aspx

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDarticle=1655

[Kurtdog]

What took you so long?

I'm usually only here for a few minutes each morning passing through reading threads and responding. Then I'm usually gone for 24 hours and I may not drop by at all from Saturday til Monday morning.

That's no excuse. I have responsibilities in the real world, too, but I don't let them interfere with my hobbies.

[Kurtdog]

In answer to the original question, here are some good articles that address that very topic:

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/VPExplained.aspx

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDarticle=1655

Dave, thanks for these.