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Opinions on Full Bell Lines

Started by physics-fan3.14,

33 posts in this topic

physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted

This coin has perplexed me for a while. It is one of the very few Franklins I retained after selling my collection, and just recently had it imaged by Bob. What is your opinion of the Bell Lines on this one? Do you think it would make it?

 

Closeupofbelllines_zps60bef7c2.jpg

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SkyMan

SkyMan

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No.

 

Which, given your opening statement, probably means it got slabbed as an FBL.

 

Heck, both major TPGs IMO often are COMPLETELY off in their designation of FBL.

 

Here's an NGC FBL that I bought sight unseen because I believed NGC was tougher on the FBL designation. (The coin is such a lovely coin I kept it even with the fouled up designation).

 

 

 

58Frankobv027.jpg

58Frankrev050.jpg

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djdilliodon

djdilliodon

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What are the official standards that the TPG's use for FBL's?

 

From what I've seen in holders :

NGC requires both top and bottom bell lines to be full. They will allow very minor ticks/abrasions with the occasional mark across lines. (Ngc is tougher than pcgs and most of the time with decent pics I will buy them without an in hand inspection).

 

PCGS requires only the bottom set of lines to be full and will allow minor ticks/abrasions and more often will even let marks that disturb the lines slide. (I will not buy an fbl franklin in a pcgs holder unless I can inspect the coin in hand).

 

Myself I require both upper and lower lines to be full and will not touch a coin that has any disturbing marks on either set of lines. I have become extremely picky lately on what I will buy.

 

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

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What are the official standards that the TPG's use for FBL's?

 

From what I've seen in holders :

NGC requires both top and bottom bell lines to be full. They will allow very minor ticks/abrasions with the occasional mark across lines. (Ngc is tougher than pcgs and most of the time with decent pics I will buy them without an in hand inspection).

 

PCGS requires only the bottom set of lines to be full and will allow minor ticks/abrasions and more often will even let marks that disturb the lines slide. (I will not buy an fbl franklin in a pcgs holder unless I can inspect the coin in hand).

 

Myself I require both upper and lower lines to be full and will not touch a coin that has any disturbing marks on either set of lines. I have become extremely picky lately on what I will buy.

 

Correct. This coin certainly doesn't meet my standards for FBL, but I'm really questioning whether or not it may meet PCGS's standards. In light of this - what do y'all think?

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

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I would never ask this question for any coin besides the present example - it is clearly not FBL by most standards. However, it is one of the most well struck examples of the issue that I have ever seen. It is also one of the highest graded (NGC gave it a 66+). If there is even a whisper of a prayer that it may get FBL, it is worth taking the shot - I paid about $500 for it, and if I could convince someone at a TPG that it was FBL, it would be worth $50k easily.

 

Incidentally, old-timers required "Pass and Stow" to be complete and readable, which is clearly the case for this coin. Overall, for a 1953S, this is a superlative strike.

 

1953sFrankNms66plusObv_06_zps689338b7.jpg

1953sFrankNms66plusRev_01_zps401a38ac.jpg

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
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I think it is a very nice coin, but with all due respect, I have seen pieces, including this date and mintmark, with sharper bell lines without the designation. I do not think it is even close, even by PCGS standards.

 

If you are looking to submit the coin and ultimately liquidate it either way, some auction firms such as Great Collections offer discounted grading opportunities that may limit the amount of money spent on a submission, and there is no shipping fee to or from PCGS for the latter (they pick up and drop of the coins themselves). If you submit it, good luck.

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$ilverHawk

$ilverHawk

Posted
Posted
i am no expert on this topic but the bottom set of lines are complete but the top ones are lacking on the left part

 

From the pics. I do not see complete bell lines on the lower or upper line sets.

 

Strongly struck, but not FBL.

 

Carl

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Raisethis2

Raisethis2

Posted
Posted

 

 

As was described above PCGS is softer on FBL than NGC but NGC will let a FBL with a minor tick right across the bell lines still grade FBL.

 

To NGC Graders the difference is whether or not the lines are all there as intended (IMO) .

 

The pictures above (both the 1958 and the 1953 S) do not exhibit the look necessary.

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WoodenJefferson

WoodenJefferson

Posted
Posted

belllineclose_zps2bdd4a5f.jpg

 

Area A is completely devoid of lines

Area B line stops about here

Area C is ok because this area is generally devoid of lines anyway

 

If I were a grader, my cursory inspection of the reverse does not draw me towards the bell lines, so it's a immediate pass over in that respect.

 

I realize the date or mint mark should not matter with designating bell lines, but when you revealed to us this was a 53-S I so wanted it to have full bell lines, the mind begins to think, well maybe?

 

I say no on this one.

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djdilliodon

djdilliodon

Posted
Posted
I would never ask this question for any coin besides the present example - it is clearly not FBL by most standards. However, it is one of the most well struck examples of the issue that I have ever seen. It is also one of the highest graded (NGC gave it a 66+). If there is even a whisper of a prayer that it may get FBL, it is worth taking the shot - I paid about $500 for it, and if I could convince someone at a TPG that it was FBL, it would be worth $50k easily.

 

Incidentally, old-timers required "Pass and Stow" to be complete and readable, which is clearly the case for this coin. Overall, for a 1953S, this is a superlative strike.

 

1953sFrankNms66plusObv_06_zps689338b7.jpg

1953sFrankNms66plusRev_01_zps401a38ac.jpg

 

From the pics I totally agree with the grade! It will not fbl at either service especially because its a 53 S! You have a much better chance getting it into a 67 holder than a fbl holder. I'd have to see it in hand but from the pics it sure looks like the coin is all there to make a 67 (strike, luster, and how free of marks it is).

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coinman1794

coinman1794

Posted
Posted
This coin has perplexed me for a while. It is one of the very few Franklins I retained after selling my collection, and just recently had it imaged by Bob. What is your opinion of the Bell Lines on this one? Do you think it would make it?

 

Closeupofbelllines_zps60bef7c2.jpg

 

My official answer is that this angle makes it hard to see how much separation is there. Also, the standards for a 1953-S are much different than they are for other dates, and this one is rather nice compared to most late die state examples from this die.

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

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Toaster, those look full enough to me. The sweet spot is that area just left of the crack on the upper lines. I'm told the incomplete impression has to do with the die depressing over a concave area on the opposite (obverse) die offering less resistance for the impression (or something like that). Anyway, that's one handsome coin.

 

EDIT: Make that one handsome one-half of a coin. :)

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djdilliodon

djdilliodon

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Heres My 53-S which is in an NGC MS66 holder.

Its got tons of bell lines but.......NO CIGAR!

 

 

1953SPerryRA.jpg

 

1J53Scoin10.jpg

 

If that coin was mine I would be cracking it out and sending it to pcgs! I'd give that one at least 5 tries with bottom lines like that!

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zboyle04

zboyle04

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Heres My 53-S which is in an NGC MS66 holder.

Its got tons of bell lines but.......NO CIGAR!

 

 

1953SPerryRA.jpg

 

1J53Scoin10.jpg

 

If that coin was mine I would be cracking it out and sending it to pcgs! I'd give that one at least 5 tries with bottom lines like that!

 

agreed that one is really really close

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