No prices listed for coin sets???

[joes2001]

I was looking at the most recent Krause world catalogue for coins 1900-current. I noticed that there's no listing for mint and proof sets. In the 2013 book from 1900-2000, these are listed. What's the deal. I definitely wont buy the newest edition now.

[World Colonial]

In my opinion, if you are buying this catalogue for the price information, you are and have been wasting your money.

 

I collect two series with coins in this (20th century) guide, Bolivia Republic Decimals and South Africa Union. Many of the Bolivian coins sell infrequently or essentially never, so I cannot confirm the prices are wrong because I have not actually checked but I am almost certain they are.

 

On the Union coinage, forget it. Krause is worthless. First, when I compared the last version I have (electronic just for Africa) which I believe is 2010 to the 1998, the prices were the same. Second, South Africa has its own price guide (Hern) and none of them match to my knowledge but if they do, it is by accident. And third, a few of these coins have never sold either at all or at least in the grades listed since 1998, so where exactly did they get those prices? This was even more true in 1998 before the availability substantially increased due to much higher prices for many of them.

 

So where did these prices come from? My answer is that whoever provided them to Krause just made them up. Same goes for Hern which I have stated to those in SA many times. There is no other explanation because there is no public evidence that most of these coins ever sold for these prices and if they did, it is only because the catalogue listed the price first. If the claim is that they extrapolated some prices from the sales of others in the series, I reject that as well absent specific evidence to support this assertion.

 

To give you a specific example, the 1931 florin was (and is) listed at $1250 in "UNC" while the 1925 florin was (and is) listed at $2200 in "UNC". No one can buy either coin anywhere near this price now though maybe they could have in 1998, assuming either could be found which I doubt. I have seen the 1931 exactly once in 14 years (in avg circulated grade raw) and it is easily worth some multiple of the 1925 in any grade, both now and in 1998.

[joes2001]

Thanks for sharing. I agree with you. The Krause catalogue seems worthless because of such cases. When I use NGCs online priceguide, it seems the same as well. And when you compare US price guides in magazines, which are supposed to be more up-to-date, they all seem the same with very minor differences if at all. I don't know if it's laziness or what.

 

To tell you the truth, I never buy the bulky world Krause catalogues for the cover price. I got the 2013 book used at a coin store for 10 bucks which i think is a steal. I've thought about buying them but I find too many problems for them to be worth what they're asking.

[World Colonial]

My understanding is that the NGC on-line price guide uses Krause as it's primary source.

 

Krause is useful to me to attribute coins and remind myself what is "out there" if I ever decide to add another series to my interests. An old guide like the one you mentioned serves this purpose.

 

I do not collect any US coins anymore but I understand it is similar though somewhat better based upon comments by others here and on the PCGS forum.

 

For other markets with their own price catalogs such as South Africa, Canada or the UK, I suspect that common low priced coins are actually priced per the guide, but not the logical way. By that, I mean that these are likely established in a retail (coin dealer) setting because the dealers use the guides to set their prices (at least somewhat). It isn't that the guides actually surveyed the market, obtained historical sales data and then updated the catalog. Maybe this happens somewhat but I do not think so.

 

But for the rest of them, its as I described in the above post. The coins either sell so infrequently in specific grades, market conditions change or the prices vary due to differences in actual quality that a fixed price guide has no practical value as a pricing tool except maybe in a relative sense. (For South Africa, I would not even agree it does that.)

[CyberspaceVoid]

Krause is useful to me to attribute coins and remind myself what is "out there" if I ever decide to add another series to my interests. An old guide like the one you mentioned serves this purpose.

 

Exactly what I do myself. The values listed have no basis in reality other than giving a general idea of demand or conditional rarity.

[joes2001]

I don't really understand though. If you go on ebay or to some flea market dealer, and most coin shops, they go by Krause for their world coins. I mean, what else are they going to use for some coin from Africa or Cuba perhaps? You guys say you use them for attribution and scouting other coins, but I feel most use it to get a general idea of price. How can i get a better idea of what my world coins from 1900-2000s for example are worth? Thanks

[CyberspaceVoid]

Joe,

 

World coin values tend to be a guess at best, and Krause should only be used as a guide as few countries outside the "Anglo" nations have sizable coin collecting populations. Keeping up with all the coin values is impossible, but best guess approach is useful. Yes, dealers will use the listed price (they don't know either, but hey, it's a business and they can point to a printed value much like a car dealer to the MSRP). I bet you can always negotiate a much better price (below "MSRP") unless it is a limited-edition "Ferrari".

 

When I look at the most modern world coins (1980's - present) I say use exchange value unless they are in primo mint state and of extremely low mintage. For older coins (1930-1980) I tend to estimate top value at half the Krause listed price ... even then that is probably generous. Older coins are probably more accurately priced by grade, but the older you get the quoted values tend to be less than actual value (if you can find a buyer).

 

People tend to collect their own country's coins, so when they appear they are usually souvenirs from personal trips (and occasional war tours). Rare world coins just don't tend to make it out of country, and if they do they you will only see them at auction. I collect them for their beauty or historical/cultural insight and not to make money....

[joes2001]

Well said. Thank you. Another thing that I run into is when a world coin only has a price for Vf, and the coin is a VG or F with or without problems. I find that the VF price is only listed in Krause for 19th century coins (probably 20th too), even for well-known countries like Great Britain and France. For example, I have a silver Swedish coin dating around 1880 and VF is 40 dollars. But it's in G or VG. I have no idea what it's worth. It's bullion? Or half of VF price? It's hard to know. I guess there are no definite answers and price it how you like if you're going to sell it. It does seem that a lot of times there's really not much money to be made, so I think your perspective or way of collecting world coins is a good idea.

[World Colonial]

"Rare world coins just don't tend to make it out of country, and if they do they you will only see them at auction. "

 

I would be curious to know which coins you have in mind. My experience is exactly the opposite.

 

I do not collect any US coins and of the series I collect, my opinion is that a disproportionate percentage of the scarcer coins are not held by locals except for South Africa Union and ZAR. Below I include a few examples.

 

Bolivia Republic decimals are probably almost exclusively owned by Americans and Europeans. I visit the country twice per year and I have never heard of even one coin shop in the entire country, there are no reference books for any of their series, never heard of any coin clubs and to my knowledge, collecting does not really exist.

 

Same applies to Spanish colonial pillars outside of Mexico. All the best coins I have seen and bought have been sold either by US or European dealers or auction firms.

 

What I just described, I suspect it applies to all of Latin America except maybe Mexico and Brazil, though even with these countries, I suspect that foreigners own a disproportionate number of the better coins. Same applies to most British Commonwealth and colonial coinage coins outside of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.

 

It is true that most of the better coins I have seen are sold at auction, but that is probably mostly true because many of them are very scarce, at least in any better grade that those such as myself want to buy. I also admit that I do not know where the

rarest dates are held, though I suspect that most of these also left these countries a long time ago. (Some have probably returned in the last decade or so as interest in numismatics is either being created or somewhat increased.)

 

If you look in the NGC Registry sets, the Rudman collection is the only one which is listed as mostly complete for Mexico pillars and yes, it has all of the rare dates except for the 1772 8R. Most of these coins are not in very good grades but some are such as the 1732 4R, a major rarity and one which is much scarcer than the also scarce 1732 8R. However, the fact that most of these coins are not in high quality by US standards is not a negative reflection on this registry set, but of the practical impossibility of finding these coins in the first place.