My first prooflike Peace Dollar!

[jerseycat10]

i dont know what you guys are looking at, but i can tell it is certainly semi-pl, maybe even better.

 

I don't know much.

 

I never grade from pictures; don't know how and will never learn how because I can't master eye appeal picture grading with my depth perception and vision rating.

 

What I do know is that being semi-prooflike is not prooflike, and being certain something is semi-pl and maybe even better, because of a picture, seems quite risky.

 

I also know that risk is a deep pocket braveheart game, when buying a coin based on eye appeal perception from a picture.

 

I think we are getting hung up on semantics here.

 

In my thinking, if a person is semi-fat, that also means they are fat. There are varying levels of fatness.

 

Similarly, there are varying levels of prooflikeness.

 

DMPL, PL, and SEMI-PL. All three describe the prooflike-ness of a coin.

 

I am asserting that, without having seen the coin, that it is SEMI-PL, based on the decent-but-not-great images provided by the seller, as well as the STAR designation, which, was obviously not awarded due to color or luster for this particular coin.

 

ZBOYLE: I let physicsfan-3.14 win the last Peace SEMI-PL STAR coin, and regretted it immensely (sorry Jason, ). I went all-in on this one accordingly, and got it rather cheaply. I will help you get the next one There's got to be at least one more.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

i dont know what you guys are looking at, but i can tell it is certainly semi-pl, maybe even better.

 

I don't know much.

 

I never grade from pictures; don't know how and will never learn how because I can't master eye appeal picture grading with my depth perception and vision rating.

 

What I do know is that being semi-prooflike is not prooflike, and being certain something is semi-pl and maybe even better, because of a picture, seems quite risky.

 

I also know that risk is a deep pocket braveheart game, when buying a coin based on eye appeal perception from a picture.

 

I think we are getting hung up on semantics here.

 

In my thinking, if a person is semi-fat, that also means they are fat. There are varying levels of fatness.

 

Similarly, there are varying levels of prooflikeness.

 

DMPL, PL, and SEMI-PL. All three describe the prooflike-ness of a coin.

 

I am asserting that, without having seen the coin, that it is SEMI-PL, based on the decent-but-not-great images provided by the seller, as well as the STAR designation, which, was obviously not awarded due to color or luster for this particular coin.

 

ZBOYLE: I let physicsfan-3.14 win the last Peace SEMI-PL STAR coin, and regretted it immensely (sorry Jason, ). I went all-in on this one accordingly, and got it rather cheaply. I will help you get the next one There's got to be at least one more.

 

I don't argue the point of semantics.

 

I argue the point of picture risk certainty.

 

There is a logic bust in stating that there is certainty of conclusion from a picture, and at the same time basing the certainty on decent but not great images (provided by the seller).

 

It is not obvious to me that the star designation is for the reason you assert. I am sure you are far more experienced than I in asserting a position from a picture. I accept that you may be right, because of the experience.

 

That does not transfer to those that think otherwise as being wrong.

 

I do not have the certainty confidence level that would allow me to dismiss any logical argument that does not agree with my position.

[zboyle04]

i dont know what you guys are looking at, but i can tell it is certainly semi-pl, maybe even better.

 

I don't know much.

 

I never grade from pictures; don't know how and will never learn how because I can't master eye appeal picture grading with my depth perception and vision rating.

 

What I do know is that being semi-prooflike is not prooflike, and being certain something is semi-pl and maybe even better, because of a picture, seems quite risky.

 

I also know that risk is a deep pocket braveheart game, when buying a coin based on eye appeal perception from a picture.

 

I think we are getting hung up on semantics here.

 

In my thinking, if a person is semi-fat, that also means they are fat. There are varying levels of fatness.

 

Similarly, there are varying levels of prooflikeness.

 

DMPL, PL, and SEMI-PL. All three describe the prooflike-ness of a coin.

 

I am asserting that, without having seen the coin, that it is SEMI-PL, based on the decent-but-not-great images provided by the seller, as well as the STAR designation, which, was obviously not awarded due to color or luster for this particular coin.

 

ZBOYLE: I let physicsfan-3.14 win the last Peace SEMI-PL STAR coin, and regretted it immensely (sorry Jason, ). I went all-in on this one accordingly, and got it rather cheaply. I will help you get the next one There's got to be at least one more.

 

varying levels of fatness hahaha perfect analogy. I am curious what you got this one for, i would have probably bid up to $300-400 for it. certainly let me know if you stumble upon another, i am always looking for these

[MarkFeld]

i dont know what you guys are looking at, but i can tell it is certainly semi-pl, maybe even better.

 

I don't know much.

 

I never grade from pictures; don't know how and will never learn how because I can't master eye appeal picture grading with my depth perception and vision rating.

 

What I do know is that being semi-prooflike is not prooflike, and being certain something is semi-pl and maybe even better, because of a picture, seems quite risky.

 

I also know that risk is a deep pocket braveheart game, when buying a coin based on eye appeal perception from a picture.

 

I think we are getting hung up on semantics here.

 

In my thinking, if a person is semi-fat, that also means they are fat. There are varying levels of fatness.

 

Similarly, there are varying levels of prooflikeness.

 

DMPL, PL, and SEMI-PL. All three describe the prooflike-ness of a coin.

 

I am asserting that, without having seen the coin, that it is SEMI-PL, based on the decent-but-not-great images provided by the seller, as well as the STAR designation, which, was obviously not awarded due to color or luster for this particular coin.

 

ZBOYLE: I let physicsfan-3.14 win the last Peace SEMI-PL STAR coin, and regretted it immensely (sorry Jason, ). I went all-in on this one accordingly, and got it rather cheaply. I will help you get the next one There's got to be at least one more.

 

Semantics, indeed. I believe that this thread would have been noticeably shorter, had its title been " My first semi-prooflike Peace Dollar!" rather than "My first prooflike Peace Dollar!"

[comicdonna]

I bet you're right.

[physics-fan3.14]

Jersey - that looks like a fantastic coin and an amazing score. It probably is not fully PL, but it looks to have strong prooflike tendencies. I would wager the Star was given for being strongly semi-prooflike. That's about as good as you are going to get on a Peace dollar! The reverse does appear to show some contrast, but I'm not sure how much of that is actually there and how much is clever photography. You'll have to let us know when you get it in hand.

 

As for mine, I have a Star graded 63, and I paid $127 for it. I'm curious, if you will share, what you spent on yours. Here are Bob's pictures of mine:

 

[jerseycat10]

I got mine, in an auction-style listing, for $195 hammer, with a max bid of $300.

 

Two more pics:

 

[zboyle04]

wow, looks even better in those pics

[jom]

I don't see a lot of PL coins (non-Morgans)...especially ones designated as such by NGC. I would assume (I could be wrong) the coin would need to look at least something like a Morgan would with a PL designation. Am I wrong? I dunno...all I do know is I've never seen a PD that even remotely looks like a PL Morgan...but that's just me.

 

That original photo doesn't show me much. I hope JC can get a good shot of it.

 

Besides all of that whether or not there is a PL or STAR or whateverthehell designation that is applied all that should matter is whether it's eye appealing to JC. I mean, what else matters?

 

jom

[MarkFeld]

I don't see a lot of PL coins (non-Morgans)...especially ones designated as such by NGC. I would assume (I could be wrong) the coin would need to look at least something like a Morgan would with a PL designation. Am I wrong? I dunno...all I do know is I've never seen a PD that even remotely looks like a PL Morgan...but that's just me.

 

That original photo doesn't show me much. I hope JC can get a good shot of it.

 

Besides all of that whether or not there is a PL or STAR or whateverthehell designation that is applied all that should matter is whether it's eye appealing to JC. I mean, what else matters?

 

jom

 

Because of the different textures/finishes on Peace Dollars, they are not held to the same standard as Morgan Dollars, for purposes of the PL designation. If they were, there probably wouldn't be any designated as PL.

[nk1nk]

I don't see a lot of PL coins (non-Morgans)...especially ones designated as such by NGC. I would assume (I could be wrong) the coin would need to look at least something like a Morgan would with a PL designation. Am I wrong? I dunno...all I do know is I've never seen a PD that even remotely looks like a PL Morgan...but that's just me.

 

That original photo doesn't show me much. I hope JC can get a good shot of it.

 

Besides all of that whether or not there is a PL or STAR or whateverthehell designation that is applied all that should matter is whether it's eye appealing to JC. I mean, what else matters?

 

jom

 

Because of the different textures/finishes on Peace Dollars, they are not held to the same standard as Morgan Dollars, for purposes of the PL designation. If they were, there probably wouldn't be any designated as PL.

 

Mark,

 

Is there any place that one could find these standards for pl pd?

 

Nick

[TonerGuy]

IMHUEO - Looks damn close on the reverse... but I know nothing about PL standards.

 

But its the closest I have ever seen to anything remotely PL on a Peace $ and I have seen tens of thousands of Peace $ over the years.

 

As for the obverse... too bad. If the obverse matched the reverse that would be a stunner ! Still a great coin. I would get it reholdered reverse side out in one of the black inserts.

 

Great pick up for $195...

[mkman123]

funny analogy about the fatness......chubby fat -->fat---->morbidly obese

 

Cannot wait to see what that coin looks like when Robec takes a pic of it if Jerseycat lets Robec do it or not.

 

While you guys fight about if its pl or semi pl, I'm gonna diligently search for a DMPL peace :D j/k

[MarkFeld]

I don't see a lot of PL coins (non-Morgans)...especially ones designated as such by NGC. I would assume (I could be wrong) the coin would need to look at least something like a Morgan would with a PL designation. Am I wrong? I dunno...all I do know is I've never seen a PD that even remotely looks like a PL Morgan...but that's just me.

 

That original photo doesn't show me much. I hope JC can get a good shot of it.

 

Besides all of that whether or not there is a PL or STAR or whateverthehell designation that is applied all that should matter is whether it's eye appealing to JC. I mean, what else matters?

 

jom

 

Because of the different textures/finishes on Peace Dollars, they are not held to the same standard as Morgan Dollars, for purposes of the PL designation. If they were, there probably wouldn't be any designated as PL.

 

 

 

Mark,

 

Is there any place that one could find these standards for pl pd?

 

Nick

 

Not that I'm aware of, Nick.

[mkman123]

Here you go guys.......see if he will lower his price and see if it will cross to NGC

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-1934-D-PROOFLIKE-Peace-1-ANACS-MS-62-PL-DMPL-/231076145704?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item35cd362a28

[jom]

Here you go guys.......see if he will lower his price and see if it will cross to NGC

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-1934-D-PROOFLIKE-Peace-1-ANACS-MS-62-PL-DMPL-/231076145704?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item35cd362a28

 

There we go again....another large asking price with a **itty photo. I wish the seller good luck with that one.

 

jom

[physics-fan3.14]

I don't see a lot of PL coins (non-Morgans)...especially ones designated as such by NGC. I would assume (I could be wrong) the coin would need to look at least something like a Morgan would with a PL designation. Am I wrong? I dunno...all I do know is I've never seen a PD that even remotely looks like a PL Morgan...but that's just me.

 

That original photo doesn't show me much. I hope JC can get a good shot of it.

 

Besides all of that whether or not there is a PL or STAR or whateverthehell designation that is applied all that should matter is whether it's eye appealing to JC. I mean, what else matters?

 

jom

 

Because of the different textures/finishes on Peace Dollars, they are not held to the same standard as Morgan Dollars, for purposes of the PL designation. If they were, there probably wouldn't be any designated as PL.

 

Mark - in this very rare case, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Peace dollars, and in fact all series, are generally held to the same standard, and that is precisely *why* there are so few PL Peace dollars graded. If they were judged on a different standard (adjusted for the tendencies of Peace dollars), then jersey's coin shown would have a PL designation without question - the pictures make it appear to be one of the most PL Peace's I've seen.

 

It is, however, because of the different curvature, techniques, and finish that PL Peace dollars are so rare.

[MarkFeld]

I don't see a lot of PL coins (non-Morgans)...especially ones designated as such by NGC. I would assume (I could be wrong) the coin would need to look at least something like a Morgan would with a PL designation. Am I wrong? I dunno...all I do know is I've never seen a PD that even remotely looks like a PL Morgan...but that's just me.

 

That original photo doesn't show me much. I hope JC can get a good shot of it.

 

Besides all of that whether or not there is a PL or STAR or whateverthehell designation that is applied all that should matter is whether it's eye appealing to JC. I mean, what else matters?

 

jom

 

Because of the different textures/finishes on Peace Dollars, they are not held to the same standard as Morgan Dollars, for purposes of the PL designation. If they were, there probably wouldn't be any designated as PL.

 

Mark - in this very rare case, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Peace dollars, and in fact all series, are generally held to the same standard, and that is precisely *why* there are so few PL Peace dollars graded. If they were judged on a different standard (adjusted for the tendencies of Peace dollars), then jersey's coin shown would have a PL designation without question - the pictures make it appear to be one of the most PL Peace's I've seen.

 

It is, however, because of the different curvature, techniques, and finish that PL Peace dollars are so rare.

 

Jason, the (few?) Peace Dollars I have seen with PL designations did not have the reflectivity/mirrors required for that desigantion on Morgan Dollars. And In fact, I have never seen a Peace Dollar with mirrors that rival that seen on PL Morgan Dollars.That tells me the standards for the PL designation are indeed, different.

[jerseycat10]

funny analogy about the fatness......chubby fat -->fat---->morbidly obese

 

Cannot wait to see what that coin looks like when Robec takes a pic of it if Jerseycat lets Robec do it or not.

 

While you guys fight about if its pl or semi pl, I'm gonna diligently search for a DMPL peace :D j/k

 

I might need to see who wins Jasons prooflike picture contest before I decide who to send this to.

 

 

[JIM F.]

Looks like a nice coin to me.

[coinman_23885]

Jason, the (few?) Peace Dollars I have seen with PL designations did not have the reflectivity/mirrors required for that desigantion on Morgan Dollars. And In fact, I have never seen a Peace Dollar with mirrors that rival that seen on PL Morgan Dollars.That tells me the standards for the PL designation are indeed, different.

 

By "PL designations" are you referring to those designated by NGC or another grading service (e.g. old ANACS)? The reason why I ask is that NGC has only certified 2 proof like Peace Dollars. Since there is such a small population, I am wondering whether the standards are truly different or whether your observations are the result of normal inconsistency/subjectivity applied to a superlative designation (as the same can be said for strike designations, star designations,etc.). Generally, my experience with non-Morgan PL coins has been that the designated examples have reflectivity that rivals the standards used on Morgan Dollars (although this too is based on observation of coins with small populations generally - to my knowledge NGC has never published their standards for non-Morgan PL coins).

[coinman_23885]

I think it is a neat coin, and one that any Peace Dollar collector would be proud to own. With this said, I do not think the coin is fully proof like, but rather semi-prooflike and close to fully proof like. I do hope that you will post images when you have the coin in hand.

 

Edited to add: My assessment is based on what I am interpreting to be patches of mint frost/frosty luster that interrupt the mirrors in places. A fully PL coin should have completely uninterrupted mirror like fields at a minimum.

[MarkFeld]

Jason, the (few?) Peace Dollars I have seen with PL designations did not have the reflectivity/mirrors required for that desigantion on Morgan Dollars. And In fact, I have never seen a Peace Dollar with mirrors that rival that seen on PL Morgan Dollars.That tells me the standards for the PL designation are indeed, different.

 

By "PL designations" are you referring to those designated by NGC or another grading service (e.g. old ANACS)? The reason why I ask is that NGC has only certified 2 proof like Peace Dollars. Since there is such a small population, I am wondering whether the standards are truly different or whether your observations are the result of normal inconsistency/subjectivity applied to a superlative designation (as the same can be said for strike designations, star designations,etc.). Generally, my experience with non-Morgan PL coins has been that the designated examples have reflectivity that rivals the standards used on Morgan Dollars (although this too is based on observation of coins with small populations generally - to my knowledge NGC has never published their standards for non-Morgan PL coins).

 

Sorry, NGC. I saw one of them 1-2 years ago and am not sure about the other.

[illini420]

Was browsing Teletrade and thought this one looked at least semi-PL, the reverse in particular... hard to tell from the photos though...

 

http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=3454&lot=2320

 

 

 

[A.Phillips]

My opinion, it's kinda of difficult to tell the different (semi PL, PL, and star) and choice the correct designation for Peace Dollar compare to Morgan Dollar. However, the Peace Dollar that you picked up from ebay is really nice coin!

 

[nk1nk]

Illini,

 

The reverse of that coin is georgeous!! Post better pics when you get the coin.

 

Jersey,

 

Give us an update, how's it look in hand? Any new pics you can post?

 

Nick

[A.Phillips]

Illini,

 

Jersey,

 

Give us an update, how's it look in hand? Any new pics you can post?

 

Nick

 

He post the picture of his Peace on page 4.

[RWB]

The standard for "PL" should be consistent. Any PL Peace dollar should look the same as a "PL" Morgan or seated half, etc.