Would you? Saint question.

[CSdot]

Local shop has two PCGS 1927 Saints graded MS65. If you had a raw 1927 and a NGC 1927 graded MS-62, would you consider trading one and paying the difference to get an MS-65? Assume the coins are properly graded. According to the NGC registry, those 3 extra points (MS-62 ==> MS-65) are only worth 300 point. That honestly is not much points-wise in a registry, so the decision would really only be whether it is worth it to have the higher graded coin. Curiously, there is only 100 point difference between an EF-40 and an MS-62 in the NGC registry. WTF?

 

The MS-65 lists for $2,225. I don't know what the MS-62 would trade for, and honestly I would lean towards trading the raw coin and breaking the MS-62 out for my 7070, but I would expect at least $1,600 for the MS-62. The raw coin is probably $1,310 or whatever an ounce of gold goes for (even though it is a little less than an ounce).

 

So the question boils down to would you pay $900 and a raw 1927 Saint to get an MS-65 graded 1927 Saint for your collection?

 

My Saint collection can be seen by clicking my signature.

 

Thanks.

[yonico]

I would leave the registry-points aspect out when making a decision like this.

 

The common dates in low UNC grades and lower are generally traded as bullion (with a small premium, just like a 1-ounce gold round), that's why there is only a small difference between XF and MS62 point score on the registry.

 

I would check the pop reports and past sale prices before deciding if its worth the extra $900.

 

If it was me, I would pass on this deal. MS65's can be had for $2000, and the raw coin can bring $1,350. So +$650 is more like it. +$900 is a bit too much

 

Good luck!

[MarkFeld]

I wouldn't buy/trade common date Saints for registry set purposes, alone. If you're going to pursue an MS65, why not do so because you care about owning a finer quality example?

 

Also, I think it's unrealistic to expect to get $1650 for an MS62.

[CSdot]

I think the whole purpose of participating in the registry is to attempt to gather in one place the finest quality example you can obtain, but maybe in my brevity I left out that point. I think these responses have helped me decide not to do it. Thanks.

[yonico]

I think the whole purpose of participating in the registry is to attempt to gather in one place the finest quality example you can obtain, but maybe in my brevity I left out that point. I think these responses have helped me decide not to do it. Thanks.

 

True. But the registry (being a computerized system) always automatically prefers an ugly, dirty low end MS64 to a superb well-struck, eye appealing and attractive MS63. It also sometimes gives the same score to all coins in "VF" grade, but that doesn't mean a VF20 and a VF35 are the same..

 

Good luck with your sets!

[Walkerfan]

I'd MUCH rather have the 65. It would look A LOT nicer than any 62. I collect coins and not registry points.

[yonico]

I'd MUCH rather have the 65. It would look A LOT nicer than any 62. I collect coins and not registry points.

 

You say that in general? Or in reply to the OP's question?

Cause he's talking about trading the MS62 + $900, for the MS65.

In this case I would not go for the MS65.

[Eric Hazen]

I'd MUCH rather have the 65. It would look A LOT nicer than any 62. I collect coins and not registry points.

 

+1

[yonico]

I'd MUCH rather have the 65. It would look A LOT nicer than any 62. I collect coins and not registry points.

 

+1

 

the OP did not ask which is better, an MS62 or MS65.

 

he asked if trading an MS65 for an MS62+$900 was a good deal or not.

 

you're stating that you'd rather have a 65 over a 62. that's obvious. but it has nothing to do with the question he asked....

 

of course, for the same price i would take the 65. but for $900 more - no way! MS65'S sell for about $500-$650 more, so $900 is not a good deal..

[MarkFeld]

I'd MUCH rather have the 65. It would look A LOT nicer than any 62. I collect coins and not registry points.

 

+1

 

the OP did not ask which is better, an MS62 or MS65.

 

he asked if trading an MS65 for an MS62+$900 was a good deal or not.

 

you're stating that you'd rather have a 65 over a 62. that's obvious. but it has nothing to do with the question he asked....

 

of course, for the same price i would take the 65. but for $900 more - no way! MS65'S sell for about $500-$650 more, so $900 is not a good deal..

 

You mischaracterized what the OP wrote.

 

He didn't ask "if trading an MS65 for an MS62+$900 was a good deal or not". He asked

"So the question boils down to would you pay $900 and a raw 1927 Saint to get an MS-65 graded 1927 Saint for your collection?". Those are two very different questions.

[CSdot]

In this situation I have two 1927 saints already, one raw and one MS-62. My local shop is selling an MS-65. Assuming the coins truly qualify for those grades (as I mentioned, this has nothing to do with chasing plastic, as the registry in this case does not do much to distinguish between the two), is it worth trading the raw coin plus some cash to get the MS-65?

 

The list price for the MS-65 is $2,225. Mark and others have indicated that this is not a good price, so I have decided to pass on doing this.

 

*My initial thinking (though it's no longer going to happen), was since the MS-62 does not command much of a premium over raw, it would then transition from my registry set (replaced by the MS-65) to being my $20 Saint type coin in my Dansco 7070 album.

[RWB]

You want to buy a coin based on "registry points?"

 

My opinion on that is unprintable.....

[CSdot]

You want to buy a coin based on "registry points?"

 

My opinion on that is unprintable.....

 

Your reading comprehension skills leave something to be desired. : (

 

I don't think I could make it any more clear. The registry points don't matter at all.

[RWB]

Most of your first paragraph is about "registry points."

[yonico]

I'd MUCH rather have the 65. It would look A LOT nicer than any 62. I collect coins and not registry points.

 

+1

 

the OP did not ask which is better, an MS62 or MS65.

 

he asked if trading an MS65 for an MS62+$900 was a good deal or not.

 

you're stating that you'd rather have a 65 over a 62. that's obvious. but it has nothing to do with the question he asked....

 

of course, for the same price i would take the 65. but for $900 more - no way! MS65'S sell for about $500-$650 more, so $900 is not a good deal..

 

You mischaracterized what the OP wrote.

 

He didn't ask "if trading an MS65 for an MS62+$900 was a good deal or not". He asked

"So the question boils down to would you pay $900 and a raw 1927 Saint to get an MS-65 graded 1927 Saint for your collection?". Those are two very different questions.

 

Mark,

the OP said: Local shop has two PCGS 1927 Saints graded MS65. If you had a raw 1927 and a NGC 1927 graded MS-62, would you consider trading one and paying the difference to get an MS-65? Assume the coins are properly graded. i didn't see he specified which one

 

anyway, to my point, it makes no difference.

even the raw $20 brings about $1,300 , and n MS65 can be had for $2,000 - so i stand by my opinion that this is a bad deal, and he should add no more than $600-$650 on top of the coin.

[MarkFeld]

I'd MUCH rather have the 65. It would look A LOT nicer than any 62. I collect coins and not registry points.

 

+1

 

the OP did not ask which is better, an MS62 or MS65.

 

he asked if trading an MS65 for an MS62+$900 was a good deal or not.

 

you're stating that you'd rather have a 65 over a 62. that's obvious. but it has nothing to do with the question he asked....

 

of course, for the same price i would take the 65. but for $900 more - no way! MS65'S sell for about $500-$650 more, so $900 is not a good deal..

 

You mischaracterized what the OP wrote.

 

He didn't ask "if trading an MS65 for an MS62+$900 was a good deal or not". He asked

"So the question boils down to would you pay $900 and a raw 1927 Saint to get an MS-65 graded 1927 Saint for your collection?". Those are two very different questions.

 

Mark,

the OP said: Local shop has two PCGS 1927 Saints graded MS65. If you had a raw 1927 and a NGC 1927 graded MS-62, would you consider trading one and paying the difference to get an MS-65? Assume the coins are properly graded. i didn't see he specified which one

 

anyway, to my point, it makes no difference.

even the raw $20 brings about $1,300 , and n MS65 can be had for $2,000 - so i stand by my opinion that this is a bad deal, and he should add no more than $600-$650 on top of the coin.

 

I agree it's a bad deal.

 

But you pointed out to another poster that he'd answered a question which hadn't been asked. And in so doing, you attributed a question to the OP, which he hadn't asked, and then answered it..

[CSdot]

Most of your first paragraph is about "registry points."

 

That was just background narrative that lead into the statement "That honestly is not much points-wise in a registry, so the decision would really only be whether it is worth it to have the higher graded coin."

 

I am sorry I posted this and wish I could just delete this whole thread, as it seems to have caused more confusion than it's worth.

[Walkerfan]

I'd MUCH rather have the 65. It would look A LOT nicer than any 62. I collect coins and not registry points.

 

+1

 

the OP did not ask which is better, an MS62 or MS65.

 

he asked if trading an MS65 for an MS62+$900 was a good deal or not.

 

you're stating that you'd rather have a 65 over a 62. that's obvious. but it has nothing to do with the question he asked....

 

of course, for the same price i would take the 65. but for $900 more - no way! MS65'S sell for about $500-$650 more, so $900 is not a good deal..

 

You mischaracterized what the OP wrote.

 

He didn't ask "if trading an MS65 for an MS62+$900 was a good deal or not". He asked

"So the question boils down to would you pay $900 and a raw 1927 Saint to get an MS-65 graded 1927 Saint for your collection?". Those are two very different questions.

 

Mark,

the OP said: Local shop has two PCGS 1927 Saints graded MS65. If you had a raw 1927 and a NGC 1927 graded MS-62, would you consider trading one and paying the difference to get an MS-65? Assume the coins are properly graded. i didn't see he specified which one

 

anyway, to my point, it makes no difference.

even the raw $20 brings about $1,300 , and n MS65 can be had for $2,000 - so i stand by my opinion that this is a bad deal, and he should add no more than $600-$650 on top of the coin.

 

I agree it's a bad deal.

 

But you pointed out to another poster that he'd answered a question which hadn't been asked. And in so doing, you attributed a question to the OP, which he hadn't asked, and then answered it..

 

I agree with the 600-650 assessment on top of the 1300 raw coin, as a good 1927 MS 65 can be found with some diligent searching for around 1950. This is what I would do rather than keep the raw coin. He could also sell the 62 and add just about 350 to it for a 65. I would sell one of them for sure and get a 65 BUT, yes, 2250 is a bit too much to pay for a 65. 1950 would be a better and also a realistic price. If it were me, I'd sell them BOTH and put the money towards either two different 64s or two different 65s. I would just be sure not to over pay for them. 1927 is a VERY common date in the Saint series. There is also the argument of 'quality does not come cheap'. I have overpaid a lot for certain coins (even high above retail) just because I thought that the coin was special. I don't think that he'd have this problem with the 1927 Saint, since they seem to be mostly well produced.

[CSdot]

 

 

I agree with the 600-650 assessment on top of the 1300 raw coin, as a good 1927 MS 65 can be found with some diligent searching for around 1950. This is what I would do rather than keep the raw coin. He could also sell the 62 and add just about 350 to it for a 65. I would sell one of them for sure and get a 65 BUT, yes, 2250 is a bit too much to pay for a 65. 1950 would be a better and also a realistic price. If it were me, I'd sell them BOTH and put the money towards either two different 64s or two different 65s. I would just be sure not to over pay for them. 1927 is a VERY common date in the Saint series. There is also the argument of 'quality does not come cheap'. I have overpaid a lot for certain coins (even high above retail) just because I thought that the coin was special. I don't think that he'd have this problem with the 1927 Saint, since they seem to be mostly well produced.

 

Thank you. This is the kind of answer I was looking for. :-)

[CSdot]

Where is the best place to find top grade Saints? I watch eBay for PCGS MS-65 Saints (the ones I need are 1907, 1909, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1916 and 1920), and seeing one listed below $2,500 is rare and far between. I see great prices after the fact on Heritage, but once you add in the buyer's premium, is it really that good of a price?

 

Thanks.

[MarkFeld]

Where is the best place to find top grade Saints? I watch eBay for PCGS MS-65 Saints (the ones I need are 1907, 1909, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1916 and 1920), and seeing one listed below $2,500 is rare and far between. I see great prices after the fact on Heritage, but once you add in the buyer's premium, is it really that good of a price?

 

Thanks.

 

You wont be able to obtain MS65 examples of those dates for anywhere close to $2500.

 

The prices displayed for Heritage auction results include the buyer's premium.

[Walkerfan]

Where is the best place to find top grade Saints? I watch eBay for PCGS MS-65 Saints (the ones I need are 1907, 1909, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1916 and 1920), and seeing one listed below $2,500 is rare and far between. I see great prices after the fact on Heritage, but once you add in the buyer's premium, is it really that good of a price?

 

Thanks.

 

To be honest; I never look in just one specific place. I scour ebay, numerous dealer websites and big auction firms like Heritage and Stacks Bowers all the time. A good coin can come from almost anywhere and you just never know when it will turn up. Search completed items on Ebay and auction archives on Heritage and that will give you a good idea of what you should be paying. Good luck in your search.

[CSdot]

Mark,

 

Where would you suggest one look for those dates in that condition? I live in a small town, with limited access to shows or shops. As mentioned above, my local shop wanted $2,225 for an MS-65 PCGS 1927 Saint, and it sounds like the consensus here is that their asking price is $300 or so over market.

[MarkFeld]

Mark,

 

Where would you suggest one look for those dates in that condition? I live in a small town, with limited access to shows or shops. As mentioned above, my local shop wanted $2,225 for an MS-65 PCGS 1927 Saint, and it sounds like the consensus here is that their asking price is $300 or so over market.

 

I'd check Ebay, the major coin auction houses and Collector's Corner (which has offerings from multiple sellers, consolidated on the same site - here is a link to their Saint section see here ).There are also sites for individual dealers, which you can check out.

 

There will certainly be exceptions, but generally speaking, auction results can give a more accurate picture of "value" than asking prices for items which have not yet sold. Typically, I'd throw out the especially high and low auction prices and average the remaining ones, as long as they are recent.

[CSdot]

Mark,

 

Where would you suggest one look for those dates in that condition? I live in a small town, with limited access to shows or shops. As mentioned above, my local shop wanted $2,225 for an MS-65 PCGS 1927 Saint, and it sounds like the consensus here is that their asking price is $300 or so over market.

 

I'd check Ebay, the major coin auction houses and Collector's Corner (which has offerings from multiple sellers, consolidated on the same site - here is a link to their Saint section see here ).There are also sites for individual dealers, which you can check out.

 

There will certainly be exceptions, but generally speaking, auction results can give a more accurate picture of "value" than asking prices for items which have not yet sold. Typically, I'd throw out the especially high and low auction prices and average the remaining ones, as long as they are recent.

 

Nice. Thanks.

[GoldFinger1969]

CS, what did you eventually do on the swap ?

 

Any more luck finding more competitive pricing on higher-MS grade Saints ? I think you can get lucky with the 10-20% of sellers on Ebay who are price competitive OR hit the auction houses.

 

I'd say among dealers -- and I have hit a bunch in recent months -- less than half are competitive and/or have decent inventory of Saints over time. A few places in NJ have great inventory (some wealthy areas in the state) and I know Blanchard/Monex did good business with alot of my Private Bank clients in the 1990's and 2000's there, so that is probably another good source of supply. But with the NJ sales tax, unless it's a tough-to-get coin, common pricing can be towards the upper-end of Ebay pricing.

 

I'm looking forward to doing some auctions with Heritage and others later this year myself.

[CSdot]

Haven't had much opportunity to pick up any new Saints lately. I was at the Amelia Island car show this weekend, which included two world class auctions (Gooding and RM) so maybe I can pick up a new addiction for spending money?

[James_OldeTowne]

I'll just answer the OP without looking at other replies.

 

For the way I collect, I do not like Saints in MS-62, or even MS-64. They are too large and heavy to really look "nice" at anything below MS-65 in my opinion, and the premium is not so huge as to be prohibitive. In fact, for the proportionally small premium, I would only get an MS-66 to serve type purposes.

 

But then again... I don't own any gold and don't plan too !

[GoldFinger1969]

I'll just answer the OP without looking at other replies.For the way I collect, I do not like Saints in MS-62, or even MS-64. They are too large and heavy to really look "nice" at anything below MS-65 in my opinion, and the premium is not so huge as to be prohibitive. In fact, for the proportionally small premium, I would only get an MS-66 to serve type purposes.But then again... I don't own any gold and don't plan too !

 

You're aware that even for the common years, there's a HUGE increase in going from MS62-64 to MS65-66 ? I'm talking on the order of 50-100%, or more.

 

And for some of the non-common years, you are talking easily 200-500% -- or more !!

 

Unless one is just getting a few Saints, any serious collection is going to involve tens of thousands AT LEAST if you want some of the coins in MS-65 or better, let alone MS-66.

[CSdot]

I'll just answer the OP without looking at other replies.

 

For the way I collect, I do not like Saints in MS-62, or even MS-64. They are too large and heavy to really look "nice" at anything below MS-65 in my opinion, and the premium is not so huge as to be prohibitive. In fact, for the proportionally small premium, I would only get an MS-66 to serve type purposes.

 

But then again... I don't own any gold and don't plan too !

 

As the OP, I tend to agree with you with respect to purchasing a high grade Saint for Type Purposes. For set purposes, however, I can see a place for lower grades. For example, an MS64 1912, 1913 or 1920 is a very nice collector grade.