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GTG: 1889 Gold Dollar (UPDATED with PCGS grade)

Started by coinman_23885,

28 posts in this topic

coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted

The coin is in an ICG holder, and I am wondering whether it would be fruitful to try to cross the coin within a 1 point interval. Unfortunately, since it is my coin, I am not objective. Please grade this coin. I plan to reveal the grade in a couple of days.

 

82_obv_SC_zps0fb2c055.jpg

82_rev_SC_zps73cf1a54.jpg

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Coindude

Coindude

Posted
Posted

Kenny, my only question would be the color. What does it really look like in hand and do you think the color is original. I see very minor issues other than that with the coin. And personally I think most of what I'm seeing might be clash marks. The picture isn't in "hard" focus so it's kinda hard to tell especially with such a small coin. The largest distractions I see are on the bust side. There appears to be a small scratch in the field in direct line from her eyes to the E in UNITED. Also behind her neck there seems to be an X, first line starting at 12 and going to 6, the second from 2 going to 7. What can you tell me about those?

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yonico

yonico

Posted
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I'm not familiar with this series but looks to me like MS65/66

I would definitely try to send it in to NGC.

You've posted a very nice group of coins the last few day. Good job picking these up!

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FishyOne

FishyOne

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Posted

That piece looks very strong in the images and I would guess it's an ICG MS67.

 

Crossing with a 66 min. sounds like a good plan.

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BillJones

BillJones

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Posted

The 1889 gold dollar was the last year for the gold dollar issued for general circulation. As such it was heavily hoarded as were all of the gold dollars from the 1880s.

 

I have seen many slabbed gold dollars that I thought were conservatively graded, and only a small number that I thought were over graded, all of them with the MS-65 and more often 66 grades.

 

This piece is in a green label PCGS MS-64 holder. It looks like an MS-65 to me all day long, but since I have never played the crack-out game with the coins in my collection, I've never tried to upgrade it.

 

1889GoldDollarO.jpg1889GoldDollarR.jpg

 

I think that your piece will probably grade no higher than MS-64 because of discoloration I see on the leaves on the reverse, surface spots and minor marks. If this were a Type II gold dollar, you might get the MS-65, but since it is a Type III which tends to come nice, I'd say you can't count on getting more than MS-64.

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Red Llama

Red Llama

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Posted

Going off what Bill posted above I think this is a very deceiving coin. At first glance it seems like a solid 66 type coin but look at the discoloration and the hair lines I'm going to say 63. Could be wrong and I know that that seems crazy low but what I see.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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Posted
Going off what Bill posted above I think this is a very deceiving coin. At first glance it seems like a solid 66 type coin but look at the discoloration and the hair lines I'm going to say 63. Could be wrong and I know that that seems crazy low but what I see.

 

I don't see hairlines, but rather, what I think is evidence of clashed dies.

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Red Llama

Red Llama

Posted
Posted
Going off what Bill posted above I think this is a very deceiving coin. At first glance it seems like a solid 66 type coin but look at the discoloration and the hair lines I'm going to say 63. Could be wrong and I know that that seems crazy low but what I see.

 

I don't see hairlines, but rather, what I think is evidence of clashed dies.

 

I was talking about the actual hair. A 65 or higher has much stronger detail here. I think it is a weak strike but still a good coin just would be surprised any higher than 63.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Going off what Bill posted above I think this is a very deceiving coin. At first glance it seems like a solid 66 type coin but look at the discoloration and the hair lines I'm going to say 63. Could be wrong and I know that that seems crazy low but what I see.

 

I don't see hairlines, but rather, what I think is evidence of clashed dies.

 

I was talking about the actual hair. A 65 or higher has much stronger detail here. I think it is a weak strike but still a good coin just would be surprised any higher than 63.

 

Nothing about the strike of that coin should cause it to grade lower than 66. Having seen and/or owned hundreds of them, I believe you are incorrect in saying 65 and higher examples have "much stronger detail here". If this one grades lower than 66, it is not due to its strike.

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Red Llama

Red Llama

Posted
Posted
Going off what Bill posted above I think this is a very deceiving coin. At first glance it seems like a solid 66 type coin but look at the discoloration and the hair lines I'm going to say 63. Could be wrong and I know that that seems crazy low but what I see.

 

I don't see hairlines, but rather, what I think is evidence of clashed dies.

 

I was talking about the actual hair. A 65 or higher has much stronger detail here. I think it is a weak strike but still a good coin just would be surprised any higher than 63.

 

Nothing about the strike of that coin should cause it to grade lower than 66. Having seen and/or owned hundreds of them, I believe you are incorrect in saying 65 and higher examples have "much stronger detail here". If this one grades lower than 66, it is not due to its strike.

 

I disagree. The detail on the hair especially at the bottom is pretty weak and I think that alone would keep this from gem. I'm really seeing like a 62-63 coin here.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Going off what Bill posted above I think this is a very deceiving coin. At first glance it seems like a solid 66 type coin but look at the discoloration and the hair lines I'm going to say 63. Could be wrong and I know that that seems crazy low but what I see.

 

I don't see hairlines, but rather, what I think is evidence of clashed dies.

 

I was talking about the actual hair. A 65 or higher has much stronger detail here. I think it is a weak strike but still a good coin just would be surprised any higher than 63.

 

Nothing about the strike of that coin should cause it to grade lower than 66. Having seen and/or owned hundreds of them, I believe you are incorrect in saying 65 and higher examples have "much stronger detail here". If this one grades lower than 66, it is not due to its strike.

 

I disagree. The detail on the hair especially at the bottom is pretty weak and I think that alone would keep this from gem. I'm really seeing like a 62-63 coin here.

 

You are obviously free to disagree and think it all you want. But the reality of grading for that type of coin and strike is verty different from what you think.

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Mark T

Mark T

Posted
Posted
Going off what Bill posted above I think this is a very deceiving coin. At first glance it seems like a solid 66 type coin but look at the discoloration and the hair lines I'm going to say 63. Could be wrong and I know that that seems crazy low but what I see.

 

I don't see hairlines, but rather, what I think is evidence of clashed dies.

 

I was talking about the actual hair. A 65 or higher has much stronger detail here. I think it is a weak strike but still a good coin just would be surprised any higher than 63.

 

Nothing about the strike of that coin should cause it to grade lower than 66. Having seen and/or owned hundreds of them, I believe you are incorrect in saying 65 and higher examples have "much stronger detail here". If this one grades lower than 66, it is not due to its strike.

 

I disagree. The detail on the hair especially at the bottom is pretty weak and I think that alone would keep this from gem. I'm really seeing like a 62-63 coin here.

 

You are obviously free to disagree and think it all you want. But the reality of grading for that type of coin and strike is verty different from what you think.

 

 

I was just about to make the same post - I dont think LLama understands the strike characteristics of this series of coin.

 

 

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BillJones

BillJones

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Posted

I think that the strike on this piece is a little weak on the bottom curls. Compare it to these two coins of the same type.

 

This one is an 1858-D gold dollar that is graded MS-61.

 

1858-DAUDolO.jpg

 

This 1881 gold dollar is graded MS-67.

 

1881GoldDolO.jpg

 

And this 1861 gold dollar was struck with "tired dies" in addition to the fact that it has some marks. It grades MS-62.

 

18611goldO.jpg

 

 

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Red Llama

Red Llama

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Posted

I am not saying that is so incredibly weak strike but it is not a strong one. That is not the major 'issue' with the coin. I think the bottom curl is weak and maybe I'm seeing something wrong here but I stand by that.

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Coinbuf

Coinbuf

Posted
Posted
Going off what Bill posted above I think this is a very deceiving coin. At first glance it seems like a solid 66 type coin but look at the discoloration and the hair lines I'm going to say 63. Could be wrong and I know that that seems crazy low but what I see.

 

I don't see hairlines, but rather, what I think is evidence of clashed dies.

 

I was talking about the actual hair. A 65 or higher has much stronger detail here. I think it is a weak strike but still a good coin just would be surprised any higher than 63.

 

Nothing about the strike of that coin should cause it to grade lower than 66. Having seen and/or owned hundreds of them, I believe you are incorrect in saying 65 and higher examples have "much stronger detail here". If this one grades lower than 66, it is not due to its strike.

 

Something of interest I'd like to mention that might be affecting the grade guesses by some is that the OP's pics are huge. And when you blow up a pic of such a small coin as this is the details can seem to be softer than thay might appear if the pic was just abit smaller/sharper.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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Thank you all so much for your comments and thoughts. In response to the comments left in this thread:

 

(1) In hand, the color is a slightly deeper gold color;

(2) The comment about activity in the obverse field in front of the princess is on the coin, but less conspicuous in hand;

(3) The marks behind the princess are on the slab;

(4) There are die clash marks on the coin;

(5) The photographs accurate display the coin's strike.

 

In hand I was thinking MS65+ shot MS66. I was hoping to achieve the latter in a crossover. I think a lot of what people are interpreting as contact marks are either from clashed dies or from marks on the holder. ICG graded the coin MS67.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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Also, I decided I would create a poll about what I should do with this piece. I am leaning towards sending it to PCGS as a crossover. Which of the following poll options would maximize this coins value? Disclaimer: If this coin is liquidated, I agree that I will not post the coin on NGC forums at all so as to prevent this from being construed as spam

 

 

 

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wdrob

wdrob

Posted
Posted
For anyone that is curious, PCGS graded this MS66 as a crossover submission.

 

Sharp eye. Got just what you were thinking. Congrat's and hope your doing well.

 

 

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