Another eBay Con Artist

[wdrob]

 

I felt this was so blatantly wrong that others may also feel the need to report people doing such as this to shut em down. I reported as many of the listings as the time I had would allow. I would hope that others would also report a number of the listings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the sellers listings.

 

 

 

I understand some don't feel this is the proper venue to alert others to violations on eBay sellers but I really don't think the eBay forum would have many coin collectors hanging around let alone any that would care.

[MarkFeld]

What violation of Ebay policy are you alleging?

[brg5658]

What violation of Ebay policy are you alleging?

 

I have the same question as Mark. I don't see any eBay infraction here.

[yonico]

doesn't look like he's breaking any rules here. he's actually going by ebay's guidelines and does not post any numerical grades in his title OR in the listing.

if you report these listings, you have 500,000 other raw coins on ebay to report as well..

[mikew148]

Although no rules have been broken.....

 

PCSG and PNCG slabs......Really?

 

The seller is clearly trying to make a profit from people who, almost, understand who the top grading companies are.

 

Should ebay do a better job of policing it's marketplace? Probably.

 

Should people do some research before throwing their money away? ABSOLUTELY!

[Raisethis2]

I get what OP is alerting us to. It's not that complicated. By mimicking the slab color and switching a couple of letters a fraud is being attempted. It's a valid knock on E-Bay to allow this nonsense unchallenged but heaven forbid if you should state that a coin is MS 65 WHEN IT IS AN MS 65, that's against their rules.

 

E-Bay would be better off to ban this too or let "anything go" but require 14 or 30 day returns on everything. To suggest that people who post this garbage on E-Bay asking money appropriate for a grade that the coin encased couldn't meet, isn't doing a service to the honest posters (of which there are many).

 

If you look through is/her activity you'll see that this person is a frequent coin buyer on E-Bay also. How much you wanna bet coins purchased are slabbed in the basement then relisted within days?

 

Are these the acts of an honest seller?

 

[jpcienkus]

I get what OP is alerting us to. It's not that complicated. By mimicking the slab color and switching a couple of letters a fraud is being attempted. It's a valid knock on E-Bay to allow this nonsense unchallenged but heaven forbid if you should state that a coin is MS 65 WHEN IT IS AN MS 65, that's against their rules.

 

E-Bay would be better off to ban this too or let "anything go" but require 14 or 30 day returns on everything. To suggest that people who post this garbage on E-Bay asking money appropriate for a grade that the coin encased couldn't meet, isn't doing a service to the honest posters (of which there are many).

 

If you look through is/her activity you'll see that this person is a frequent coin buyer on E-Bay also. How much you wanna bet coins purchased are slabbed in the basement then relisted within days?

 

Are these the acts of an honest seller?

 

+1

[yonico]

 

Are these the acts of an honest seller?

 

maybe not. but honest or not, he's not breaking any rules or conning, and it's the buyer's responsibility to read the listing carefully and know what they're getting, and do their own DD..

 

by the way, 14-day money back return policy is more than fair, and that's what he offers......

[MarkFeld]

I get what OP is alerting us to. It's not that complicated. By mimicking the slab color and switching a couple of letters a fraud is being attempted. It's a valid knock on E-Bay to allow this nonsense unchallenged but heaven forbid if you should state that a coin is MS 65 WHEN IT IS AN MS 65, that's against their rules.

 

E-Bay would be better off to ban this too or let "anything go" but require 14 or 30 day returns on everything. To suggest that people who post this garbage on E-Bay asking money appropriate for a grade that the coin encased couldn't meet, isn't doing a service to the honest posters (of which there are many).

 

If you look through is/her activity you'll see that this person is a frequent coin buyer on E-Bay also. How much you wanna bet coins purchased are slabbed in the basement then relisted within days?

 

Are these the acts of an honest seller?

 

I don't consider the seller to be "honest". Sadly, however, I see nothing for which to report him to Ebay.

 

I did send him the message below and if he replies, I will post it here.

 

"Dear seller,

I don't know PNCG and PCSG companies - can you tell me what they are and how their coins do, price-wise, compared to PCGS and NGC?

Thanks"

[mikew148]

I get what OP is alerting us to. It's not that complicated. By mimicking the slab color and switching a couple of letters a fraud is being attempted. It's a valid knock on E-Bay to allow this nonsense unchallenged but heaven forbid if you should state that a coin is MS 65 WHEN IT IS AN MS 65, that's against their rules.

 

E-Bay would be better off to ban this too or let "anything go" but require 14 or 30 day returns on everything. To suggest that people who post this garbage on E-Bay asking money appropriate for a grade that the coin encased couldn't meet, isn't doing a service to the honest posters (of which there are many).

 

If you look through is/her activity you'll see that this person is a frequent coin buyer on E-Bay also. How much you wanna bet coins purchased are slabbed in the basement then relisted within days?

 

Are these the acts of an honest seller?

 

I don't consider the seller to be "honest". Sadly, however, I see nothing for which to report him to Ebay.

 

I did send him the message below and if he replies, I will post it here.

 

"Dear seller,

I don't know PNCG and PCSG companies - can you tell me what they are and how their coins do, price-wise, compared to PCGS and NGC?

Thanks"

 

Perfect, hope you get a response.

[MarkFeld]

I get what OP is alerting us to. It's not that complicated. By mimicking the slab color and switching a couple of letters a fraud is being attempted. It's a valid knock on E-Bay to allow this nonsense unchallenged but heaven forbid if you should state that a coin is MS 65 WHEN IT IS AN MS 65, that's against their rules.

 

E-Bay would be better off to ban this too or let "anything go" but require 14 or 30 day returns on everything. To suggest that people who post this garbage on E-Bay asking money appropriate for a grade that the coin encased couldn't meet, isn't doing a service to the honest posters (of which there are many).

 

If you look through is/her activity you'll see that this person is a frequent coin buyer on E-Bay also. How much you wanna bet coins purchased are slabbed in the basement then relisted within days?

 

Are these the acts of an honest seller?

 

I don't consider the seller to be "honest". Sadly, however, I see nothing for which to report him to Ebay.

 

I did send him the message below and if he replies, I will post it here.

 

"Dear seller,

I don't know PNCG and PCSG companies - can you tell me what they are and how their coins do, price-wise, compared to PCGS and NGC?

Thanks"

 

Perfect, hope you get a response.

 

From the seller:

 

"comparable coins sell for slightly less than PCGS and NGC you can get some deal on some very nice coins.

at a bargain price."

[BruceS]

I get what OP is alerting us to. It's not that complicated. By mimicking the slab color and switching a couple of letters a fraud is being attempted. It's a valid knock on E-Bay to allow this nonsense unchallenged but heaven forbid if you should state that a coin is MS 65 WHEN IT IS AN MS 65, that's against their rules.

 

E-Bay would be better off to ban this too or let "anything go" but require 14 or 30 day returns on everything. To suggest that people who post this garbage on E-Bay asking money appropriate for a grade that the coin encased couldn't meet, isn't doing a service to the honest posters (of which there are many).

 

If you look through is/her activity you'll see that this person is a frequent coin buyer on E-Bay also. How much you wanna bet coins purchased are slabbed in the basement then relisted within days?

 

Are these the acts of an honest seller?

 

I don't consider the seller to be "honest". Sadly, however, I see nothing for which to report him to Ebay.

 

I did send him the message below and if he replies, I will post it here.

 

"Dear seller,

I don't know PNCG and PCSG companies - can you tell me what they are and how their coins do, price-wise, compared to PCGS and NGC?

Thanks"

 

Perfect, hope you get a response.

 

From the seller:

 

"comparable coins sell for slightly less than PCGS and NGC you can get some deal on some very nice coins.

at a bargain price."

 

Sounds like a politician answering a question Under cross examination. In other words a non answer.

[mikew148]

I get what OP is alerting us to. It's not that complicated. By mimicking the slab color and switching a couple of letters a fraud is being attempted. It's a valid knock on E-Bay to allow this nonsense unchallenged but heaven forbid if you should state that a coin is MS 65 WHEN IT IS AN MS 65, that's against their rules.

 

E-Bay would be better off to ban this too or let "anything go" but require 14 or 30 day returns on everything. To suggest that people who post this garbage on E-Bay asking money appropriate for a grade that the coin encased couldn't meet, isn't doing a service to the honest posters (of which there are many).

 

If you look through is/her activity you'll see that this person is a frequent coin buyer on E-Bay also. How much you wanna bet coins purchased are slabbed in the basement then relisted within days?

 

Are these the acts of an honest seller?

 

I don't consider the seller to be "honest". Sadly, however, I see nothing for which to report him to Ebay.

 

I did send him the message below and if he replies, I will post it here.

 

"Dear seller,

I don't know PNCG and PCSG companies - can you tell me what they are and how their coins do, price-wise, compared to PCGS and NGC?

Thanks"

 

Perfect, hope you get a response.

 

From the seller:

 

"comparable coins sell for slightly less than PCGS and NGC you can get some deal on some very nice coins.

at a bargain price."

 

Sounds like a politician answering a question Under cross examination. In other words a non answer.

 

"Comparable coins" ? That's funny! Talk about apples to oranges.

 

So what the seller is stating is this AU Details coin in a PCSG holder sells for slightly less than an MS64 in a PCGS slab. - http://www.ebay.com/itm/1902-O-Brilliant-Uncirculated-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-/221272809213?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3384e31efd

 

He starts the coin out at exactly $10 less than the PCGS guide. What a deal!

[jpcienkus]

I don't consider the seller to be "honest". Sadly, however, I see nothing for which to report him to Ebay.

 

I did send him the message below and if he replies, I will post it here.

 

"Dear seller,

I don't know PNCG and PCSG companies - can you tell me what they are and how their coins do, price-wise, compared to PCGS and NGC?

Thanks"

 

Perfect, hope you get a response.

 

From the seller:

 

"comparable coins sell for slightly less than PCGS and NGC you can get some deal on some very nice coins.

at a bargain price."

 

Love the way you posed the question like some newbie who didn't know a thing.

 

His response was somewhat expected, based on the shenanigans he's trying to pull with his do-it-yourself re-holders!

[wdrob]

but honest or not, he's not breaking any rules or conning, and it's the buyer's responsibility to read the listing carefully and know what they're getting, and do their own DD..

 

by the way, 14-day money back return policy is more than fair, and that's what he offers......

 

I have refrained from posting further on this however it was very interesting to see individual interpretations of this sellers listings and the distinction between "Breaking Rules" and "Ethics" and for some it would seems as though they are mutually exclusive.

 

I think far to many times, when someone makes the comment that they are not breaking any eBay rules, they tend to focus on the one aspect of the Total eBay Policy that only relates to selling and listing coins. This is just one portion of a policy that is far greater than that one small section.

 

The seller is indeed breaking eBay rules in a number of areas.

 

 

1.) The condition type, condition description, photos and item descriptions for a listing must not contradict one another. - On this alone the listings are violating eBay policy on listing items. In the Title as well as under Item Specifics the seller states either Uncirculated or Brilliant Uncirculated yet in the Detailed Item Info it is stated as being Circulated Coinage. This is contradictory.

 

2.) The condition type, condition description, photos and item descriptions for a listing must not contradict one another. - Once again if you look at the item description in the main body the seller states "The coin you bid on is the coin you will receive ! All coins are sold "AS IS" no warranty is expressed or implied." - This of-course is contradictory to the 14 Day Money Back Return Policy listed lower in the listing.

 

3.) While we try to offer reliable data, we cannot promise that the catalogs will always be accurate and up-to-date, and you agree not to hold our catalog content providers or us responsible for inaccuracies in catalogs. If you choose to include catalog content in your listings, you continue to be fully responsible for your listings and for ensuring that your listings are accurate, do not include misleading information, and comply with this User Agreement and all eBay policies. - Although the seller may have ( and I am not certain that this catalog info was not self created ) used eBay's Available Catalog Info, this portion of the eBay User Agreement clearly states that it is the SELLERS RESPONSIBILITY to ensure that the information is accurate and not misleading. The seller fails in this area and, as a result, is violating eBay Policy.

 

4.) post false, inaccurate, misleading, defamatory, or libelous content; - Once again I will focus solely on the misleading aspect as it is clear to anyone with a reasonable mind that the intent here is to mislead the uninformed and less than entirely educated in the coin collecting hobby by using an unapproved TPG slab colors and name selection to closely resemble and confuse the casual uninformed buyer.

 

5.) Don't create listings that are intended to circumvent eBay policies or that violate the intent of eBay policies. - The fact that the seller has included a Certification Number in the Item Detail Area and then in the next detail (GRADE) directs the prospective buyer to "See Pictures" is actually a Item Specific as eBay frequently refers to photos as "Specifics" throughout it's Selling Policies, User Agreements, as well as General eBay Policies. The fact that the seller eluded to the Grade in the picture when asked to supply a Grade (which can only be supplied through an approved TPG) they are attempting to circumvent eBay Policies and clearly violate the INTENT which is a clear violation as outlined previously.

 

 

This is my opinion. I think I have more than enough justification for my opinion in that this sellers listings do violate eBay policies in many ways, as well as many others that I have not listed since I believe I have met the burden.

 

As for this person not being a "Con Artist". I will only direct you to the actual definition as it relates to this use of the word, in which even the replies to this thread questioning the allegation have reinforced through their acknowledgment that this eBay Seller is dishonest and attempting to deceive.

 

 

 

con

4 adjective, verb, conned, con·ning, noun Informal.

adjective

1. involving abuse of confidence: a con trick.

 

verb (used with object)

2. to swindle; trick: That crook conned me out of all my savings.

3. to persuade by deception, cajolery, etc.

 

noun

4. a confidence game or swindle.

5. a lie, exaggeration, or glib self-serving talk: He had a dozen different cons for getting out of paying traffic tickets.

 

 

 

[mikew148]

I agree with you 100% Rob that this seller is a dishonest person trying to make money off of the less than properly informed.

 

Have you contacted eBay? Hopefully somebody there has a "reasonable mind" and will be able to see through this sellers BS.

 

 

[wdrob]

Well I did as I originally posted. I reported as many of these as I could and I only posted this, not to start a debate or to disrespectfully denounce ones opinion. That is a personal opinion and if some continue to offer rationale as to why a seller, that they feel is being dishonest or deceptive, should be allowed to go unreported then that is their prerogative.

 

I only posted and stated that others that felt the same way as I do might want to take a moment to report one, two, or possibly three of the listings.

 

Since there is a power in numbers I felt that this would wake eBay up to go beyond relying on their 'Bot' to identify key words and human intervention may take over and correctly identify this seller as, at the very least, a person attempting to circumvent Standing eBay Policies.

 

Also on a side note; If I were a representative of NGC or PCGS I think I would have a self interest in someone trying to exploit others by offering questionable products by jumbling a few letters to make it seem as though it is a NGC or PCGS slab being offered. But that is up to them as to whether they feel that this is a matter which could possibly shed a bad light upon their brand.

[AstroTrain]

While many may feel the seller is dishonest (which I do), it's our job as buyers to pay attention make sure we don't fall for the "hoax".

 

But like any other slabbed coin, I would buy the coin, not the holder. Just because the slab says it's MS64 I always make my own opinion. That goes for PNGC, PCSG and NGC and PCGS....IMHO

[WoodenJefferson]

Bargain basement prices for basement graded coins. As long as there is money to be made, unscrupulous sellers will flock to a venue where they can offer their wares. Snake oil salesman on the internet...who would have thought?