Somebody tell me if I am wrong

[Red Llama]

So I have gotten to know a guy who bought a 84s Morgan. I'm going to ask him if I can post them but you would not believe this coin. He is new to collecting and this is one of the first coins he bought and I mean wow did he score...but the stories continue.

 

So he is pretty smart so of course he does due diligence and takes it to dealers. All say-not cleaned and weight is spot on. So he goes to Vegas for the PCGS show this last week. Now he is very new to collecting so I am not sure who he talked to but he talked to me today and he went to a few dealers there.

 

The first one did what I did and said "WOW".

 

Then he goes to a few others and they seem to blow him off. A few tell him that the bag marks on the cheek keep it from being an AU.

 

Huh? When he called me he was shocked and said he does not get coin grading. He said the dealers said the reverse was a a good choice BU but obverse 'bag marks' keep it from getting a MS grade. What?

 

I told him that is complete BS. How can a dealer tell you that the coin has no circulation wear, that the high points are all good (They are. The reverse looks like a solid GEM honest to god), that the reverse is MS but 'bag marks' keep it from being MS. I have seen the coin and there are bag marks-but actually pretty damn low amount. Shockingly low. Even if it was covered in bag marks-how does that keep it from MS?? I've never heard anything so silly.

 

 

Can somebody shed light on this.

[wdrob]

I would say PF70 UC

 

Why would you be asking this in the guess the grade section with no pictures and armed with no more than a long drawn out story?

 

I think you posted wrong section.

 

 

[Red Llama]

Where should I post? I sent him a text asking if I can post. I just have can't believe dealers would say something that "Bag marks" keep a coin from MS.

[wdrob]

It just seems unusual for someone to ask questions about bag marks and how the appearance of marks on a coin can affect the grade and not having visual reference.

 

I guess he should probably just go to another dealer.

[Red Llama]

I guess a few said that. I was just asking if he maybe misunderstood or if I'm missing something. I wanted to be sure I told him right because I told him that bag marks have no bearing on if a coin is MS or not. They can affect the MS grade but that is BS he was told.

[MarkFeld]

I have seen a number of coins which were probably technically uncirculated, but were graded AU, due to numerous and/or heavy bag marks. In most cases, it was larger coins, such as $10 and $20 gold pieces, as well as silver dollars.

 

 

So, on a sight-unseen basis, I would say there was no "BS" involved.

[BillJones]

The 1884-S Morgan dollar is noted for being very common in AU and very difficult to find in strict Mint State. I'm not an expert on this coin because it is not in my collecting radar, but my perception is that getting one into a Mint State holder is very difficult.

 

For a dealer sticking your neck out and saying that a piece is "Mint State" when Mint State pieces are hard to find is a no win proposition. You could advise him to get it certified and then have him down your neck because your advice caused him to waste money on the certification when comes back graded AU.

 

If you friend was looking to sell the piece raw as a Mint State item at the Mint State price, I can predict that he would get few enthusiastic takers. It's just too difficult to buy this coin as a Mint State piece raw piece, unless it is a "slam dunk" situation. Even then you are in the position where you must predict how far up the Mint State scale it goes, which can also be a very risky financial situation. To get a fair price the owner of such a coin needs to get it certified by PCGS or NGC.

 

With no pictures it is really impossible to give you or your friend any definitive answers. Yes, there are technically Mint State coins that are so unattractive because of bag marks that they are really only worth AU money. I most often have seen this with Liberty $20 gold coins, but many silver dollars can have the same problem. That would be especially true for the 1884-S dollar because the Mint State prices are too high to put grade on an unattractive coin. The fact that the coin in question might have a beautiful reverse is immaterial. When comes to grading, if the obverse is not nice, the reverse can't save it.

 

[KeeNoooo]

It should be illegal to tell story like that about a "gem" 84-s and not show pics........

Its a tease therefore I have to assume the 84-s is not as "gem" as I am picturing.

Get some pics......he he

[coinman_23885]

I agree with what the others have said, but will also offer you some grading advice in terms of mistakes that a lot of new collectors make. Don't get too overly caught up on the Red Book approach to grading - that is, don't just focus on wear of the high points and forget to look for friction in the fields. Friction in the fields can take a coin from a high mint state grade into the AU58 range easily, and the price level explodes between AU and even MS60 condition. In other words, don't get too attached to the "gem" raw coin that my intuition tells me is likely an AU.

[benjmurts]

Post a picture, its worth a story in itself