1704 Austria/Olmutz Thaler - Safely Arrived!

[JamminJ]

Here’s an Olmutz thaler I recently bought off of e-bay. I’m very happy to have it in hand since it was coming from Slovenia, but on the plus side the price reflected a “scary seller” discount. Olmutz is the capital of Moravia, which is currently in the Eastern portion of the Czech republic.

 

 

At the time this coin was struck in 1704 the Margrave of Moravia was a vassal of the King of Bohemia who, in turn, was subject to the authority of the Emperor. Interestingly enough in 1704 all three titles were held by the same man: Leopold the Hogmouth. Even though Olmutz was the capital of Moravia, the margrave’s power only extended to the rural regions. The city itself was directly ruled a bishop, in this case Karl III Josef Herzog von Lothringen, who conducted his internal affairs independently of the margrave. I can’t find much information about this bishop, except that he was simultaneously claimed the title Duke of Lothringen, but this probably only reflected his family’s roots. He likely didn’t do much except appear on a few coins.

 

Olmutz was originally the site of a Roman fort and later became the capital of a middle age Slavic kingdom. The bishopric was established in 1073 A.D. and in 1241 A.D. the Mongols were defeated by a Christian army at the gates of the city. The bishops became Princes of the Empire in 1588 (attested to on the coin by the letters S:R:I:PCPS) and were raised to the rank of archbishops in 1777.

 

I wanted an Olmutz thaler for a while both because it keeps with my HRE theme and a fondness for the design, especially the coat of arms on the reverse. This is a fairly easy thaler to find.

 

As always, comments are welcome!

[truthteller]

The reverse shield and stylized cross reminds me of a knights templar or knights of malta medal. I think you should visit Olmutz and have a tour of the city.

 

 

TRUTH

[JamminJ]

The reverse shield and stylized cross reminds me of a knights templar or knights of malta medal. I think you should visit Olmutz and have a tour of the city.

 

I does have a Maltese Cross look to it! That was actually one of the hooks that convinced me to bid on this coin.

 

I think you're right about the trip to Olmutz. I'd also love to hit Prague and Vienna.

 

-JamminJ

[Hoot]

Were these the first thalers to be fashioned into Chinese throwing stars? That reverse looks downright dangerous!

 

I've noticed on other pieces that you've posted that the wig of the leader's bust is quite elaborate. Can you elaborate on the purpose and history of this adornment?

 

In 1704, if you were in need of clothes, you probably needed more than one thaler?

 

Sorry.

 

Hoot

[Wihlborg]

Nice coin JamminJ!

 

Congrats on a successful eastern European transaction.

 

John

[JamminJ]

I've noticed on other pieces that you've posted that the wig of the leader's bust is quite elaborate. Can you elaborate on the purpose and history of this adornment?

 

Great questions!

 

The long hair with lots of curls was the style of the times for monarchs around 1700. The guy who set the style was the King of France, Louis XIV. He was imitated by his Austrian contemporaries Leopold I, Joseph I and Charles VI. The lesser German princes usually imitated their superiors as much as their budgets allowed.

 

As for the dress the people on coins usually wore the ceremonial dress of their titles. Bishops, like the one on mmy new coin, wore the robes of their office. The emperor almost always appears in elaborate armor.

 

Unfortunately, I don't know offhand what the approximate value of a thaler was in 1704. Sounds like an interesting topic to look into, so if I come up with any estimates in the next few days I'll post them here.

 

-JamminJ

[JamminJ]

Unfortunately, I don't know offhand what the approximate value of a thaler was in 1704. Sounds like an interesting topic to look into, so if I come up with any estimates in the next few days I'll post them here.

 

I found a wealth of information on wages and prices at various points in time, most of them linked through this website. It oncentrates on England, but since a currently converter was included we know 1 thaler was approximately 3 shillings (12 pennies to a shilling) in the early 18th century. Here are some wages and prices

 

1/2d (half a penny) Half a loaf, during the gin craze earlier in the 1700s.

 

1d (one penny) Enough gin to get drunk on. A day's allowance of coal.

 

1 1/2d A pound of soap (by no means as gentle as today's soap, for it might contain traces of lye). Hourly rate for a boy to chop firewood

 

2d (tuppence) Enough gin to get dead drunk on:

as the old advertising saw goes, "Drunk for a penny, dead drunk for tuppence."

 

3d (threepence) Supper of bread, cheese and beer.Cost of blood-letting for a poor person. Cost of postage of a one-page letter going 80 miles (paid for by recipient).

 

4d (fourpence) A quart of beer. A boat across the river.

 

4d - 6d A pound of cheese (domestic).

 

5d A pound of hair powder.

 

6d (sixpence) A barber's fee for a shave and dressing of one's wig. Cost of sweeping one chimney.

 

6 1/4d (Sixpence farthing) Dinner for a government clerk: cold meat, bread and a pint of porter.

 

8d Cost of an evening at a coffee house. Turnpike toll for a coach and four horses.

 

8d -10d A pound of butter.

 

9d Cost of an almanac.

 

10d - 1s 1lb of fat bacon (enough for two working men). A dozen Seville oranges (not the kind we would care to eat today - nowadays they would be used for making marmalade

 

1s (one shilling) Dinner in a steakhouse - beef, bread and beer, plus tip. Sign-on bonus for army recruitment: 1lb of perfumed soap. Postage of a one page letter from London to New York.

 

1s 6d Rate of window tax per window of a house with 12+ windows (1762)

 

2s (2/-) Cost of 12 yards of gold braid. Weekly rent of a furnished room for a tradesman.

 

2s 2d (2/2) Daily pay for journeyman tailors.

 

2s 6d (2/6) A whole pig. A tooth extraction. Dinner sent in from a tavern.

 

2s 10d (2/10) 1lb of candles.

 

3s 2d A pair of men's yarn knitted stockings (knitting was fairly new)

 

3s 3d A barrel of Colchester oysters.

 

4s 6d A petticoat for a working woman.

 

5s (5/-) A pound of Fry's drinking chocolate. A bottle of claret at Vauxhall. A workman's secondhand coat.

 

4s 9d - 6s 1lb of coffee (but tea was more expensive!)

 

5s 2d A pint of lavender water.

 

5s 7d A pair of women's worsted stockings.

 

6s A pair of stays for a working woman.

 

7s A dozen rabbits in the market. A stout pair of shoes.

 

7s 6d - 16s 1lb of tea.

 

8s A bottle of champagne at Vauxhall.

 

8s 8d A yard of flowered damask (you would need 15 1/2 yards for one dress).

 

9s Weekly wage of an unskilled laborer. A piece (14 1/2 yards) of Indian sprigged muslin.

 

10s Cost of Dr Johnson's just-published Dictionary 1756

 

10s 6d A bottle of Dr Prossilly's water for the pox (half a guinea was a common professional fee).

 

10s 6d - 1 15s Cost of various wigs.

 

13s 10d A yard of Mechlin lace.

 

16s A pair of men's lace ruffles.

 

17s 4d A pair of men's silk stockings.

 

18s -22s Weekly wage of a journeyman tradesman 1777.

 

18s A wig for a clerk in a public office. A brass barometer.

 

18s 6d A yard of rich brocaded satin.

 

£1 - 36s (One pound to 36 shillings) Price of carpet per square yard.

 

£1 1s (one guinea) A fine beaver hat. Twelve French lessons.

 

£1 9s Season ticket to Vauxhall 1742.

 

£1 10s A pair of velvet breeches.

 

£1 12s A pair of stout silk-knit breeches.

 

£1 15s Monthly pay of an East India Company seaman 1762.

 

£2 (two pounds) Annual shaving and wig-dressing contract.

 

£2 2s (two guineas) A month's dancing lessons.

 

£2 10s Annual pay of a ship's boy.

 

£4 10s (Four and a half pounds) A suit of clothes for a clerk in public office.

 

£5 A silver hilted sword. Yearly wage for a Head housemaid, 1761

 

£5 5s (five guineas) A silver watch

 

£6 Cost of a night out, including supper, a bath and a fashionable courtesan

 

£7 Yearly wage for a head footman, 1761

 

 

Clothing was expensive!

 

-JamminJ

[Hoot]

What a great list! Puts some perspective on things... I like the value of a tooth extraction. Imagine if dentists were still valued this way.

 

Thanks for the "wig info." Interesting to think of the rivalries of those times. Same sort of politics of peacocks as we see today.

 

Hoot

[GDJMSP]

I'll give ya this JJ - you've got more guts than I do. I can't bring myself to purchase items from sellers in that part of the world. Cool coin though - I love the reverse

[TomB]

That's a cool coin and some terrific information you shared, but what about that name! Leopold the Hogmouth?

[GDJMSP]

Just keep comin around Tom. Pretty soon you'll be buyin these things too

[JamminJ]

I'll give ya this JJ - you've got more guts than I do. I can't bring myself to purchase items from sellers in that part of the world. Cool coin though - I love the reverse

 

Thanks!

 

I decided to place a bid because of several reasons. First, the seller, 32solidus, had lots of positive feedback for selling similar stuff and just one or two negs with none for non delivery. Second, I paid with a credit card through Bidpay so I could at least complain to MBNA if the coins did not show. Third, Greg has bought ots of stuff from seemingly frightening sellers but has had no problems and gotten some excellent deals.

 

-JamminJ

[JamminJ]

That's a cool coin and some terrific information you shared, but what about that name! Leopold the Hogmouth?

 

Leopold had a physical disorder which resulted in an enlarged jaw and lower lip. You can actually see it get worse on coin bearing his portrait has he ages.

 

-JamminJ