NGC slab question

[comicwiz]

Apologize for the noob question beforehand. I've been pointed to a thread with different generations of holders, but what I'm looking to identify in particular is if there are tell-tale signs on an NGC slab to look for if a slab has been tampered with or breached.

 

I'm very familiar with the CGC slab which uses four corner posts which are usually great to examine for distressed plastic, cracks, etc. However, I've also seen popped posts which came clean off. That said, I'm more familiar with that product to look for other tell-tale signs of tampering.

 

Is it a given that NGC slabs are sonic sealed well enough that there will be some cracks or signs of breaching?

 

I'm asking not to stir the pot, but there is a person local to me who has a large collection of certified coins. I don't know this individual, but he seems to be very knowledgeable on the subject of numismatics, and looks to be clearing out his collection during his retirement years.

 

I just want to be prepared to assess the possibilities of tampering, as I don't think there is anything off about this individual, but he's an older fellow, not tech-savvy at all, and as I've learned collecting in other hobbies, there's always that chance he may not have been as discriminating in his choices of people he dealt with or with the selection of certified items he acquired over the years.

[cpm9ball]

If anyone would know, it would likely be Conder101. Perhaps he will chime in later.

 

Chris

[Conder101]

I'm not positive I understand the question, but the NGC and PCGS slabs are sonicly sealed using untrasonic welding that literally welds the two shells together. The clear plastic used, if forced to bend or forced apart develops white stress hazing or cracks. This usually makes tampering with the slab very evident. One thing that people often mistake for tampering is a fin or ridge of plastic at the seam. Some people think this is from the slab being glued back together. What it actually is from is too much pressure being applied to the shells during the welding causing some of the melted plastic to extrude out from the seam.

 

In general, tampering with the major TPG shells is difficult because they will normally either go all to pieces or will show major cracking or other evidence of being forced open. (Cracks and hazing along the seam) It is true that every now and then you will get ahold of one that is not well sealed and splits open pretty cleanly, but that is not something a person tampering with slabs can count on. They may have to crack fifty to a hundred shells to get one that splits cleanly enough that it can be resused. then how do you reseal it? Glue? Or do you have to have your own sonic welder? I actually see counterfeit slabs as a more serious concern than tampered with slabs.

[comicwiz]

I'm not positive I understand the question, but the NGC and PCGS slabs are sonicly sealed using untrasonic welding that literally welds the two shells together. The clear plastic used, if forced to bend or forced apart develops white stress hazing or cracks. This usually makes tampering with the slab very evident. One thing that people often mistake for tampering is a fin or ridge of plastic at the seam. Some people think this is from the slab being glued back together. What it actually is from is too much pressure being applied to the shells during the welding causing some of the melted plastic to extrude out from the seam.

 

In general, tampering with the major TPG shells is difficult because they will normally either go all to pieces or will show major cracking or other evidence of being forced open. (Cracks and hazing along the seam) It is true that every now and then you will get ahold of one that is not well sealed and splits open pretty cleanly, but that is not something a person tampering with slabs can count on. They may have to crack fifty to a hundred shells to get one that splits cleanly enough that it can be resused. then how do you reseal it? Glue? Or do you have to have your own sonic welder? I actually see counterfeit slabs as a more serious concern than tampered with slabs.

 

Thanks, this is great info. On the part I bolded above, I wondered this myself because after inspecting a handful of his slabs, what I was noticing are spots showing white distressed plastic at the top and bottom (sometimes on the sides). Someone from NGC confirmed these were normal, and are welds from the sonic sealing.

 

When I was there however, I didn't know enough about the weld marks and only received confirmation from NGC after my visit. What I did notice was those weld markings were roughly the same spots on all the slabs. What threw me off was that "fin" effect on the bottom weld because I've seen reseals on a number of collectibles, and wondered if it was excess glue (from resealing) which had hardened.

 

I had a 30x loupe with me and looked very closely for fractures, cracking, and while there were surface scratches on the front and back of the slab, I started to doubt whether those were welds or signs of mishandling.

 

When I got home, I jumped on eBay and saw many slabs exhibiting those same weld/distressed white areas on the outer edges so I felt better about trusting my judgement and instinct that those marks were not evidence of resealing.

 

But because of my experience with posts coming clean off on CGC slabs, I guess that's where some doubt remained.

 

Overall though, I'm pleased to hear that the evidence seems to show that a clean separation is unlikely. Not knowing this or hearing others opinions on it, the worrisome thing for me when I was inspecting them is how the weld spots have an appearance of dried superglue, especially when magnified using a 30x loupe.

 

To give a visual example of the weld spots I'm referring to:

 

[comicwiz]

Oh, and I agree, the counterfeit slab aspect was an area where I spent the most time researching. Has there been any recent discovery of a slab version which differs from the NGC fake slab announcement from 2008? From the great varieties thread you posted, is the above slab the NGC 17?

[Conder101]

Without seeing the hologram on the back I can't say. It could be 13, 14, or 17. They all have the same front label but different holograms.

[comicwiz]

Right, I realized that after I posted the question:

 

[Conder101]

Yes, that one is NGC 17

[comicwiz]

Thanks again for your help (thumbs u

[halfpint]

 

...i think you're OK unless you notice scotch tape on the ends........