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1891 Morgan Toner

Started by slcoin,

15 posts in this topic

slcoin

slcoin

Posted
Posted

I went to a local coin show today looking for an uncirculated 1934S Peace Dollar, but found this instead. Let me know how you think she'd grade.

 

1891_O.jpg

 

1891_R.jpg

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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I'm having a difficult time with that coin.

 

My first thought was AU58 (due to apparent flatness on Liberty's cheek and subdued luster) and questionable color.

 

Now I'm thinking MS63 with toning that is possibly/probably OK. Still, the patch of color under the "E PL" in "E PLURIBUS" makes me suspicious.

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slcoin

slcoin

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I will say I think I've figured out how to photograph color, but I'm still struggling with luster. The coin definitely has more luster in hand than the picture, and the picture is taken at optimal angle to maximize color.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted
I'm having a difficult time with that coin.

 

My first thought was AU58 (due to apparent flatness on Liberty's cheek and subdued luster) and questionable color.

 

Now I'm thinking MS63 with toning that is possibly/probably OK. Still, the patch of color under the "E PL" in "E PLURIBUS" makes me suspicious.

 

Exactly my reaction - except I'm still leaning towards the "questionable color"

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BillJones

BillJones

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I am not saying that the color on that piece is natural, but I do have an 1876 Centennial medal in silver that was stored in the original box for a long time, which has some of that reddish toning mixed with the usual blue. I have no reason to believe that the patina on that piece is not original

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slcoin

slcoin

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I think the toning is natural, but I will admit I have very limited experience. Here's another picture without the Hollywood lighting.

 

photo_8.jpg

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BillJones

BillJones

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From the looks of the piece in your "hand photograph" I tend to think that the toning is artificial. I've never seen pale, subtle multi colors like that on a naturally toned piece.

 

I have to admit that I'm still in the educated guess mode given that we are working with photographs.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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If the coin were given a straight grade, I would call this AU58 due to what I am interpreting as rub on Miss Liberty on the obverse. I think the coin is artificially toned, however, and would probably come back as AU details. At best, the color is questionable to me.

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slcoin

slcoin

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Perhaps you are right. I was basing my opinion on coins like this one that demonstrate similar blues in the photo, yet in hand are also subdued.

 

xUdCdWV.jpg

zcX4SbI.jpg

 

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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From the looks of the piece in your "hand photograph" I tend to think that the toning is artificial. I've never seen pale, subtle multi colors like that on a naturally toned piece.

 

I have to admit that I'm still in the educated guess mode given that we are working with photographs.

 

Agreed.

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slcoin

slcoin

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I think I may be coming around to the AT camp. I guess you can chalk it up to a learning experience and not wanting to leave a show empty handed. I still find it attractive, maybe because I didn't pay a ton of money for it, maybe because I'm naive. Either way, I really appreciate all of the feedback and information so far.

 

One more question, more out of curiosity than thinking I would really do this, but if I decided to dip it, would the toning come off if it were artificial or does AT affect the actual surface of the coin?

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slcoin

slcoin

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Let me ask another question in regards to NT/AT. Is there a general rule of thumb as to how toning on the open field should react when it comes in contact to raised surfaces? For example, in the attached image, the field is primarily red, but when it approaches the stars it does not appear to be completely filled in and there is a yellowish tone in the crevices. Is this a reaction common on AT coins or is this common across any coin that's toned?

 

 

 

MS_3.jpg

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relicsncoins

relicsncoins

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I think the coin is AT. Not from one single thing, but from a few different things combined together. The color progression is strange. The toning seems to float on top of the coin instead of being a part of it. Typically when one side of the coin is fully toned, the rims on the other side have some slight toning......I would guess the coin would not grade at a major TPG.

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