1854-O $3 (Variety 1 or 2)

[cameron12x]

Obviously cleaned, but thoughts on a technical grade?

 

 

Eye appeal?

[BillJones]

The sharpness grade is EF. It is hard to tell about eye appeal without seeing it in person. You say it has been cleaned so it must have more hairlines than the ones showing in the pucture. That can affect the eye appeal. One positive thing is that it does not have the "white gold" color that some dipped pieces have.

[MarkFeld]

The coin looks XF45 at a minimum to me. And if it's been cleaned, that is not obvious, based on the image provided.

[wdrob]

 

 

VF30 - At EF there is supposed to be some detail left on the hair above the eye. I do not see any detail there at all. That is why i say VF30

[MarkFeld]

 

VF30 - At EF there is supposed to be some detail left on the hair above the eye. I do not see any detail there at all. That is why i say VF30

 

VF 30 is way too strict. It can be a (grading) mistake to focus on just one, single feature of a coin, while excluding all other considerations.

[FishyOne]

XF40 Details. The hairlines below the bust (unless they're die polish) bother me enough to pass on it.

[cameron12x]

 

VF30 - At EF there is supposed to be some detail left on the hair above the eye. I do not see any detail there at all. That is why i say VF30

Wouldn't the strike have something to do with the lack of detail there, and not necessarily wear?

[Coindude]

I think 45 is about right. As for the cleaning, I know Mark said it's not obvious but there are hairlines a plenty that go north south left of the bust and then NE to SW under the bust at 6 o'clock. I personally feel that the consistency of the hairlines, meaning that so may of them going in the same direction, that means to me it was cleaned.

[MarkFeld]

I think 45 is about right. As for the cleaning, I know Mark said it's not obvious but there are hairlines a plenty that go north south left of the bust and then NE to SW under the bust at 6 o'clock. I personally feel that the consistency of the hairlines, meaning that so may of them going in the same direction, that means to me it was cleaned.

 

I saw the hairlines after I enlarged the image. I should have said that I don't see an obvious cleaning, the type of which would necessarily result in a details grade, as opposed to a numerical grade, unaccompanied by a notation of a problem.

[johnny9434]

nice gold. ill go xf 40

[cameron12x]

Thanks everyone...

 

In general (without seeing the coin in hand) what is a cleaned EF40 example worth?

[wdrob]

Thanks everyone...

 

In general (without seeing the coin in hand) what is a cleaned EF40 example worth?

 

It is really hard to say since the majority of serious collectors run the opposite way when they see the word 'Cleaned' whether improperly or not.

 

You could always find some sucker like me that will buy any dang thing. That is where yo stand the best chance imo..

 

 

[cameron12x]

Does anyone have any experience determining whether this example would have a Variety 1 or a Variety 2 attribution?

 

There seems to be a grey area in between the two?

 

[wdrob]

In the book it says that in 1854 ONLY the word DOLLARS is in much smaller letters than in later years. The 1856 Proof has DOLLARS in large letters cut over the same word in small letters

 

Since it was only in 1854 in smaller letters I would guess that to be Variety 1. But I don't see anything about that coin and different varieties. Are you possibly confusing this with the $2.5 where the wreath on one variety was open and the other variety was closed, similar to what you have there. Or even possibly the $5 that has a Variety 1 and a Variety 2. Variety 2 has the motto above the eagle.

 

Just guessing and not trying to be a hindrance.

 

Here is the Big DOLLAR after 1854

 

 

 

 

[cameron12x]

There definitely is a variety 1 and 2 for this issue, but's it's not completely clear to me the threshold for determining lapped dies/weak strike etc.

 

Any help here? Thanks!

[BillJones]

There definitely is a variety 1 and 2 for this issue, but's it's not completely clear to me the threshold for determining lapped dies/weak strike etc.

 

Any help here? Thanks!

 

I'm with you.

 

Reading the descriptions in Doug Winter's book about the two die varieties, I'm not sure that there really are two varieties. It reads more like there are two die states. When the differences stem from a lapped (re-polished die) that is a die state.

 

At any rate you coin looks like a hybrid of the two. The "JBL" is fully visible on the bust which is variety 1, but the "OF" on the obverse looks weak which is variety 2. On the reverse the "O" mint mark is thinner than it is on the piece in Winter's book. In short, I'm confused.

 

The small size of the word "DOLLAR" on the reverse is characteristic of all 1854 dated Three Dollar Gold Pieces. Starting in 1855 the letters were made larger and continued that way for the life of the series. As such the 1854 coins are a minor type, but few collectors recognize them as such.

[cameron12x]

There definitely is a variety 1 and 2 for this issue, but's it's not completely clear to me the threshold for determining lapped dies/weak strike etc.

 

Any help here? Thanks!

 

I'm with you.

 

Reading the descriptions in Doug Winter's book about the two die varieties, I'm not sure that there really are two varieties. It reads more like there are two die states. When the differences stem from a lapped (re-polished die) that is a die state.

 

At any rate you coin looks like a hybrid of the two. The "JBL" is fully visible on the bust which is variety 1, but the "OF" on the obverse looks weak which is variety 2. On the reverse the "O" mint mark is thinner than it is on the piece in Winter's book. In short, I'm confused.

 

The small size of the word "DOLLAR" on the reverse is characteristic of all 1854 dated Three Dollar Gold Pieces. Starting in 1855 the letters were made larger and continued that way for the life of the series. As such the 1854 coins are a minor type, but few collectors recognize them as such.

Great summary, Bill... thanks!

 

I have to admit the word "hybrid" came to mind, too, when looking at my coin.

 

How easy is Doug Winter to contact?