1838-D Classic Half Eagle

[cameron12x]

Here are the seller's photos:

 

 

To me, it's very difficult to tell much from them.

 

For example, I can't tell what smudging is on the slab and what that grey matter is.

 

Other than to "stay away," any opinions?

 

Technical grade?

[coinman_23885]

I don't think anyone will be able to provide a meaningful guess as to the grade, but I can say that the coin does not look fully original to me and I believe that it may have been cleaned. I would stay away at all costs.

 

Edited to add: I'll go out on a limb and guess, that if the coin is not in a details holder, it grades somewhere between XF and low AU grade range. Factors that cannot be assessed by the photograph include, among other things, luster.

 

[cameron12x]

I don't think anyone will be able to provide a meaningful guess as to the grade, but I can say that the coin does look quite "shiny" and I believe that it may have been cleaned. Even coins in problem free holders of this period sometimes have light cleanings. I would stay away at all costs.

 

Edited to add: I'll go out on a limb and guess, that if the coin is not in a details holder, it grades somewhere between XF and low AU grade range. Factors that cannot be assessed by the photograph include, among other things, luster.

I agree, it will be difficult to assign a grade from these photos. Thanks for your estimate!

 

Do you have an idea how much a problem-free AU-50 example would cost?

[coinman_23885]

Do you have an idea how much a problem-free AU-50 example would cost?

 

I don't honestly have a lot of experience with pricing this material, but I do know that it is rare. I will guess that a problem free AU50, in the right plastic, would probably realize $8-$9k.

[coinman_23885]

P.S. I also know that often, it is no coincidence that problem coins come with crumby photos that hinder your ability to assess the coin properly. Bidding on this coin would be like playing a game of Russian roulette. I think the odds are favorable that you will end up getting burned. You could easily end up paying a large premium for a coin that is worth VF+ money or less. Most collectors who can afford to collect date and mint mark sets of southern gold wouldn't touch this coin. Liquidity would be a factor if and when you sell.

 

 

[cameron12x]

P.S. I also know that often, it is no coincidence that problem coins come with crumby photos that hinder your ability to assess the coin properly. Bidding on this coin would be like playing a game of Russian roulette. I think the odds are favorable that you will end up getting burned. You could easily end up paying a large premium for a coin that is worth VF+ money or less. Most collectors who can afford to collect date and mint mark sets of southern gold wouldn't touch this coin. Liquidity would be a factor if and when you sell.

I couldn't agree with you more about all of these things. That's why it's very important that you fully understand the return policy on such items.

 

The one thing that I would add is there are some of us out there who cannot afford to collect problem-free examples of southern gold like this particular issue with this much detail (perhaps AU details). It would steal funds away from collecting other interesting (but far less expensive) pieces. There is an allure and romanticism associated with southern gold which is hard to deny, however.

[BillJones]

The general look of that coin in the photo looks suspicious to me, like the coin has been messed with. I don't like the color, and I don't like what appears to be odd toning spots

 

I got lucky with the 1838-D I have. I had the money and I won a "Cadillac" quality piece at auction in MS-63. Since then I've seen a few others (I have not gone out of my way to look for them.), and many of them, including the Duke's Creek, "finest known," piece have been messed with. It is really unfortunate that people can't leave these coins alone.

 

I'm now looking for an 1838-C half eagle, and it is a tough slog. All but one coin I have seen has been dipped and left unattractive to my eye. People here know I'm not a purist. I'm not against a dipped coin if it is attractive, stable and priced right. It's just that a lot of these southern gold coin seem to lack at least two of those three qualities ... and stable only proves itself over time.

 

I'd advise you to look at this piece before you bid.

 

[FishyOne]

Looks like AU Details and Improperly Cleaned. I'd pass unless it's cheap (under $4k).

[cameron12x]

Unfortunately, I can't afford a pristine $10K AU example.

 

My budget was about $2,500-3,000 and I got the coin at the lower end of that range.

 

We'll see what she looks like once in hand.

[FishyOne]

Unfortunately, I can't afford a pristine $10K AU example.

 

My budget was about $2,500-3,000 and I got the coin at the lower end of that range.

 

We'll see what she looks like once in hand.

 

Please post some images when you receive the coin. It looks a whole lot better now that you've revealed the price.

[cameron12x]

Here are photos with the coin in hand:

 

 

What are the major distractions?

[cameron12x]

Does anyone have any experience determining whether this would be a Variety 1 or a Variety 2 attribution?

[wdrob]

 

I don't think that applied to 1838 the best I can tell in The Red Book.1834, 1835, and 1837 seems to be the ones effected. I assume you are talking about the difference in Date -script. Either Block or -script. I think that is -script.

[cameron12x]

I don't think that applied to 1838 the best I can tell in The Red Book.1834, 1835, and 1837 seems to be the ones effected. I assume you are talking about the difference in Date -script. Either Block or -script. I think that is -script.

Sorry, I'm having a bad night tonight. My post was meant for the 1854-O thread.

[FishyOne]

Here are photos with the coin in hand:

 

What are the major distractions?

 

From other thread:

1. Harsh Cleaning (original skin completely gone)

2. Ex-jewelry (rim damage)

3. Low eye appeal (opinion only)

4. Mucho contact marks everywhere

 

 

[BLive1972]

Mucho

[BillJones]

Does anyone have any experience determining whether this would be a Variety 1 or a Variety 2 attribution?

 

According to Doug Winter's book with a 2003 copyright, there is only one variety of the 1838-D half eagle.

 

The term that is used most often to describe many Charlotte and Dahlonega gold coins is "abraded." That means that many coins are heavily marked up an unattractive. This piece is an example of that. The root causes are circulation marks and perhaps the result of shaking the coins in a bag in order to have small pieces of gold scraped out of the surfaces. After this has been done the bag is cut open, the gold dust removed and those who do this illegally "mine" some gold from the coins which are then passed at their full face value. This is why really nice examples of these coins are hard to find and expensive. A naturally smooth, attractive example in VF-30 is really an unappreciated treasure for collectors on a budget.

 

The 1838-D half eagle is easier to find nice than the 1838-C $5 gold. I've learned that in my efforts to find a nice 1838-C so far.

 

This coin also looks dark for a gold coin. I ran into this with an 1838-C with a CAC sticker that was offered to me. I don't know if this is natural or if it is some sort of an artificial process that is used to re-tone a coin that has been dipped. Darkening the coin would also reduce the appearance of the marks.

 

I have never been a dealer in these coins. I'm coming at this as an experienced collector who still in the learning process. I have to admit that.

[cameron12x]

Sorry about my mistaken post about whether the coin was a variety 1 or 2. That was meant for the 1854-O thread. Thanks for everyone's input... much appreciated!

 

Inasmuch as I don't want to, I believe that I'm going to have to return the 1838-D $5 to the seller for the following reasons:

 

1. Lots of work has been done to the coin.

2. It has been whizzed and/or polished to a sheen.

3. Solder is still left on some of the reverse devices.

4. Scratches and/or damage on the reverse.

5. Slight rim damage likely exists.

 

I know that only about 275 remain extant, but I think that I'm going keep my eyes open and wait for a better example to come around. This thing hurts my eyes to look at it (it's that bright). It's sad, too, because is was probably a fairly nice AU piece before it was converted to jewelry.

 

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I took a chance on the poor photos in the hopes that the coin would show better in hand. It did not.