"Certification" and what it entails

[joes2001]

Hello.

 

I'm a little confused as to the "Certified" concept. I read in a WYNTK forum that only 4 slabbing companies "certify" coins, and the rest do not. I had some coins slabbed by ICG, which is one of the certifying companies. I think their grades were either correct or too conservative, but in any case, i got my coins back with the grades they assigned. I took them to a coin shop and the guy said he would offer me a dollar (a dollar!) for a MS-65 steel cent i had (43-s). He said it wasn't a 65. So what good does certification do (in general and specifically for NGC coins)? How does the concept come into play? I think ICG is a good company, but from mostly what i hear, i should stick with NGC and PCGS, which is what i now do. Hope someone could clear this up a little.

[Kurtdog]

Let me suggest how you look at this, Joe. ICG is a top-flight grading company that's been around here for many years. Still, there are dealers who are groomed these days to deal in slabs and endorsements on slabs and who couldn't condition-grade a coin anymore to save their lives. These grades, these days, are market grades. If you want to be ahead of the game, understand, that entails marketing (i.e., market grades are heavily-influenced by marketing). PCGS is the top marketer, and that's why their grades are highly-accepted by these slab-dealers. ICG isn't very big on that, and never has been, and that's what makes their grades an opportunity to play games with and question.

 

Bottom-line, without seeing your coin, I'm reasonably-confident you have an MS65. But, then, I don't collect slabs and endorsements on slabs, just coins.

[Nutmeg Coin]

ICG is lax on some coins, I recently had a 1907 $20 Saint in an ICG 63 slab, it graded 62 at NGC.

 

Another point is that most coin shops will not even offer Bluesheet prices on certified coins; heck I was at a gold buying shop that offered $1200 for a 50 Peso gold coin this week. It's too bad there is not some type of legal controls over underpricing by dealers, but they will get away with what they can get away with. If I were trying to sell your coin where would I go? Some coins I can pick up the phone in the case with NGC or PCGS rare coins; the same cannot be said with ICG. Plus customers can be very fussy. I have even gotten complaints from customers on CAC certified coins.

[RWB]

The two major companies really do just two things:

1. Authentication - is the coin genuine and unaltered?

2. Grading - they provide an opinion on the state of preservation and appearance of the coin.

 

Both are opinions, but the first is usually regarded as less subjective than the second.

[James_OldeTowne]

I'm a little confused as to the "Certified" concept. I read in a WYNTK forum that only 4 slabbing companies "certify" coins, and the rest do not. I had some coins slabbed by ICG, which is one of the certifying companies. I think their grades were either correct or too conservative, but in any case, i got my coins back with the grades they assigned. I took them to a coin shop and the guy said he would offer me a dollar (a dollar!) for a MS-65 steel cent i had (43-s). He said it wasn't a 65. So what good does certification do (in general and specifically for NGC coins)? How does the concept come into play? I think ICG is a good company, but from mostly what i hear, i should stick with NGC and PCGS, which is what i now do. Hope someone could clear this up a little.

"Certification" merely means the coin meets (in your case) ICG's grading standards, not somebody else's. So ICG does not guarantee that their MS-65 grade is the same as an MS-65 grade from NGC. But ICG does promise, by virtue of their grading guarantee, that if you were to take your ICG MS-65 and send it back to ICG review, then the coin would still live up to ICG's MS-65 standard. If they review it and find that it is in fact not MS-65, then they must reimburse you for the difference in value between the two grades.

 

If a dealer offered you $1 for a steel cent in MS-65, that does not mean he is a fool, but rather that he knows his particular market. However, I guarantee you can get more than $1 for the coin, because I would pay you more than that without even seeing the coin.

 

The offer you received says more about who you are buying selling coins from than it does about ICG.

[Keigwin]

A 1943-S in MS64, by NGC or PCGS, is worth a dollar or two. About the same for an ICG MS65 perhaps.

 

I don't think the dealer was pulling a fast one. He probably doesn't want just another middle-grade MS steel cent. If you asked to see one he could probably pull out a jar of them.

Lance.

[joes2001]

Well said everyone. I think I got it now. I really appreciate it.

[joes2001]

I like your reply. I never looked at it that way, but you make a lot of sense. Good job for sticking to your beliefs.

[RWB]

PS: The term "certified" also applies to collectors who spend lots of money to have pocket change graded and slabbed....well, that's what it says in my Dictionary for Coin Cynics

[BillJones]

First ICG is not a top flight grading company. It is a second tier grading company. While some of their coins are accurately graded I've seen more than a few that were over graded relative to my standards and those used by NGC and PCGS.

 

ICG is caught between a rock and hard place. If they grade a coin properly or conservatively chances are it will get cracked out and sent to NCG or PCGS. If they over grade a coin it stays in its ICG holder. Sadly it is really impossible to start a new grading service these days that can compete with NGC and PCGS. That's why CAC is not a grading service. They have a niche with their sticker, but if they ever tried to become a full service slabbing company they would fail be relegated to second class status like ICG and ANACS.

 

Second, buying a 1943 steel cent in a certification slab is not something you do for financial reasons. You do it mostly to fill a hole in a registry set. Why? The coin is not worth as much as it costs to get it certified unless it is in an extremely high grade like MS-67 or better.