WYNTK----Thoughts On Walker Toning

[supertooth]

It's been quite a long while since I did a WYNTK thread. But, recently there has been a lot of talk on both PCGS and NGC chat boards about Walker toning---both NT and AT---as well as pro and con opinions as to whether some toning may be called "Monster".

 

So, I thought that I'd throw some facts and some of my personal opinions out there, not to create any animosity, but just to get folks to THINK a little. Also, in that thinking, that they might improve their educational skills.

 

Pictures---everyone wants pictures---well, all that I will offer here is to say that in my two NGC Registry Sets (Doc's Walkers) there will be examples that you can look at. It is left to the individual collector to formulate his or her opinion about each and every coin that may or may not be purchased.

 

I love the Walker coin. Ever since childhood back in the 1950's. The design is so eye appealing.

 

Oxidized color goes along with the age of the coin. Where it was stored determines how it will look. To know an NT coin is to know how it "should look like" if stored in a certain environment.

 

Although pictures can be helpful---depending on how accurate they may be and who has taken them---seeing a coin in hand is better to evaluate its genuiness as to its color---its orginality---whether it is NT or not.

 

Looking at the coin after taking digital pictures tells you a lot about the coin's surfaces. Looking at that same coin with a halogen light also is a must. Take it outside and look at it in the sunlight. Tilt the coin at various angles and peruse its surfaces---especially its right obverse fields. Use more than one magnification---3x - 5 x -7x.

 

As the years go on by, you will buy coins in various holders. An example would be the old brown 2x2 envelopes. That coin would look one way, but if the coin was stored for decades in a blue or green 2x2, it will likely look entirely different. The color of the paper is important.

 

Most folks of my generation were exposed to the "blue" Whitman folders. They used to cost 35 cents back in the day.

 

But what if the collector had bought Wayte Raymond (National Coin Album) pages? The Whitman blue book coins would likely look like Tom Bush used to say---"like the colors of the New England woods in the Fall." But if in a Wayte Raymond page, the coin will have colors that "shimmer" across its surfaces--like the sheen across a lake. The colors will look enbedded within the fields and "NOT" look as if they were painted over them.

 

Experience determines whether the collector knows how it "should look like." But, once you have seen certain looks, you pretty much know about where the coin has been in its lifetime.

 

Once you have seen a "conserved" coin, you know the look. It tends to stand out.

 

A dipped coin will sometimes turn into a rather nice "rainbow toned" coin. But you can tell that the surfaces of the coin were "primed" because of the dipping, thus allowing them to take on those rainbow colors over decades after said dipping.

 

But every coin is an individual. It must be taken as such. How much humidity was it exposed to? How much heat---stored in an attic or stored in a closet or basement or SDB?

 

How much "sulfur" was in the cardboard? Did the coin take on a color---as with Wayte pages---or did it look russet or brown as in a Whitman folder?

 

Was the toning on both obverse and reverse as in the old brown 2x2's, or does the color dominate just one side of the coin?

 

Was a rubber band wrapped around the coin, or a piece of scotch tape placed over it? Was it in a leather pouch, thus acquiring that wonderful green verdigris of environmental damage?

 

Take it all in as you look at the coin. Ask yourself if what you see is POSSIBLE. When you look at a coin, are you absolutely sure right from the get go? Or do you look at the piece and ask yourself "how in the heck did it get to where it is now?" Does it look sort of like MANY of the coins that you have seen before, or does it look like NOTHING ELSE that you have ever seen or imagined?

 

Did you buy coins in a grouping? Do they take on a certain "character" because they were stored together for decades? If you separated them out among others, could you pick out their brothers and put them back together again?

 

Toned coins---are they real or has a coin doctor done his work? Each of us must determine for himself how he or she feels about a certain coin. Did the grading service slab the coin? If so, do you agree with them, or do you say that the coin is "Market Acceptable"? Does the value of the coin change any because of the holder that it is in? Does it matter whether that coin is a "White MS-64" or a "Toned MS-64" as far as it value? Some do and some don't.

 

A word on luster. Can you see it? Is it obscured because of toning? Are there luster breaks? Does the coin look to be original skinned or is the coin "dull and lackluster" because of too many dips? Or, is it somewhere in between original and way too dull? A lot of coins fall into this category.

 

White---Off White---lightly toned---heavily toned. We all have our own preferences. In the end, each collector climbs that numismatic educational ladder. As you climb up the steps, some coins will fall by the wayside while others will take on an ever "Special" meaning within you collection.

 

I once bought an old small ANACS graded holder---it was a "very dark" 1917D Rev Walker in AU55. I liked the coin a lot. It fell into what I believe was called a "black beauty". Sunnywood would call it a deep emerald green color. The dealer couldn't sell it (he said) because it was sooo dark. I crossed the coin into a PCGS holder so I could put it into my NGC Doc's Registry Set of coins. I love that coin in the sunlight. Those of us who collect such toners LOVE them. Those who collect "White" coins don't care for that oxidation. It is truly a matter of taste and upbringing.

 

So, I say to collect whatever you like. Pay a premium if you think the coin deserves it. But recognize that others will not necessarily agree with you or even enjoy your collection.

 

I try NOT to argue over the NT versus the AT coins. We know that BOTH are out there and that BOTH have made it into the top two services' holders. We also know that those who like blast white will likely not like a dark toner---just as a guy who loves color will not usually gravitate toward a white colored coin.

 

Remember, the grading services say that it is subjective grading. So whether a coin is NT or AT will also be a subjective opinion. It may also be a Market Acceptable AT coin, but it has been holdered. Personally, I believe that for the most part I can tell whether I like a coin or not pretty much as soon as I see it in hand. But, in fairness, there are some toners that defy certainty, just as there are a few white coins that probably haven't been dipped. How far up that ladder of numismatic education you have climbed could help you to know the difference.

 

But, just love the Walker for its esthetic value and quality of design. Whether you collect it in a Fine-XF-AU or in a high graded MS designation, it is a BEAUTIFUL coin. Good luck in ALL your collecting endeavors.

 

Bob

(Supertooth)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[coinman_23885]

This is very much appreciated, and very helpful to me especially. I am hoping to start a set of toned Walkers. Thank you.

[TonerGuy]

 

Great post. Thank you for taking the time to write that all out.

[WoodenJefferson]

After reading Bob's post and looking at the registry coins, take a look at these images of a raw Walker that were pulled from an on-line auction and decide.

 

[coinman_23885]

The images look blatantly AT to me.

[breakdown-migration]

Really enjoyed the post. Walkers are addictive for sure -- what a design. I am three coins from finishing my set but the last three are killers and I am determined to be patient.

 

Thanks for taking the time to put this post together.

[Raisethis2]

 

 

In my experience Walkers are about as undervalued as any series out there right now and are a beautiful design. Everyone should have a few in their collection. They are great looking toned coins.

 

Excellent write up.

[MarkFeld]

The images look blatantly AT to me.

 

Absolutely.

 

And Bob, good to see you post - thanks for the nice write up. Your love and enthusiasm for the series always shines through in your posts.

[Kurtdog]

After reading Bob's post and looking at the registry coins, take a look at these images of a raw Walker that were pulled from an on-line auction and decide.

 

Dip it. Problem solved.

[coinman_23885]

After reading Bob's post and looking at the registry coins, take a look at these images of a raw Walker that were pulled from an on-line auction and decide.

 

Dip it. Problem solved.

 

You cannot always dip off all of the artificial toning, and some of the methods employed may cause damage to the surfaces when the artificial toning is removed. The problem may not be solved by a dip.

[Kurtdog]

Dip it. Problem solved.

You cannot always dip off all of the artificial toning, and some of the methods employed may cause damage to the surfaces when the artificial toning is removed. The problem may not be solved by a dip.

I disagree. Before market grading all they did was dipped out tarnish. That was the whole point of dipping back then. And those very coins are trading like nuts today.

[coinman_23885]

Dip it. Problem solved.

You cannot always dip off all of the artificial toning, and some of the methods employed may cause damage to the surfaces when the artificial toning is removed. The problem may not be solved by a dip.

I disagree. Before market grading all they did was dipped out tarnish. That was the whole point of dipping back then. And those very coins are trading like nuts today.

 

But not all "tarnish" is created equal so to speak. Artificial toning methods that use certain heat and chemicals may irreparably damage the coin's surfaces; thus, a dip may not be sufficient to completely "conserve" the coin.

[Kurtdog]

When the surface is hurt you've got a condition issue. Most of your so-called "AT" doesn't hurt any surface. Look at them. You'll see that. I'm talking silver. On copper, you can't really dip off tarnish. If you try to, you'll destroy the condition of the coin.