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NEW pics @ end. Is there a such thing as an 1882 S double date Morgan dollar?

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When I purchased this Morgan the other day I did so because the date looked really odd to me, at first I couldn’t tell if my eyes were playing tricks on me or not, and then I realized the stars have the same distinct doubling. I checked the variety plus and there isn’t anything listed for the 1882 s that would match what this coin has. Is this kind of thing is common on 1882 S Morgan dollars, and what exactly should it be classified as DDO, RPM, or other. I do not actively collect mint errors mainly because I don’t know much about them. Any comments are appreciated!

1882sDDOMorgan_zps9b7efab6.jpg

1882sDDOMorganrev_zpsa4f11b9e.jpg

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This is certainly an interesting coin! I've been doing a little research on VAMworld to see which VAM my 1882 O/S Morgan falls under so I checked out the VAMs for the 1882-S and I can't find any attribution that matches your coin here. But that doesn't mean that one does not exist. You may have something here.... Do you have the coin in hand or is this just a stock photo from where you got the coin?

 

Correction! This coin does have a VAM attribution. I just overlooked it! I believe this would happen to be a VAM-5 Doubled Date. I compared your pictures to the pictures on VAMworld and they seem to be pretty close. It's hard to get a good judgement on this without having the coin in hand. Maybe some others with better knowledge will share their opinions!

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Well here is the thing; I don’t have the coin in hand because I purchased it and had it shipped to my dad before I got the chance to inspect it in hand. The picture provided is one by the seller; however I was told that the picture nails the coin down to the smallest details, by my dad. My dad is a very” seasoned” coin collector and he told me that here is no doubt another date there. I thought the same thing at first KeyMan64 but look at the deformities of the 1 and the first “8” as well as the inner loop of the 2. I didn’t ask specifically about the stars however he did mention that reverse was rotated about 15 degrees. Like I said I’m still trying to learn errors it seems to be a very diverse area, but extremely interesting!

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You'll have to inspect the date a little more with some magnification. The picture on VAMworld has the exact same appearance as yours, and KeyMan is right, it could be a toning issue. I tried to magnify the image with my computer a little more but it got real grainy as I magnified. So it's hard for me to tell. Look for the doubling on the 1 just below the upper crossbar, the first 8 look for doubling on both right loops to the outside and the bottom left inside of the upper loop, the second 8 look for doubling at the top and top right of the lower loop and on the2 look for it doubled at the top right.

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I'm in total agreement with pull-away toning. Quite common in toners even though your example doesn't appear to have any toning as the pictures make it look quite white. I'll bet when you get it in hand you may be pleasantly surprised that the coin has more color than expected. Hopefully it's of the beautiful variety and not the ugly variety... color that is.

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There are more than two dozen doubled date listed for the 82-S, but without the coin in-hand to compare it to the diagnostics, only someone like John B. (Messydesk) could give you a definitive answer.

 

Chris

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Correct me if I’m wrong but this appears to be an example of pull away toning, note the numbers are not deformed.

1882spullawaytoning_zpse894dfec.jpg

It appears to be almost an exact copy of this. The shift is on the date and stars but not the motto.
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Yeah I notice that, there dosent appear to be any doubling on the legend and it appears to be restricted to the date and stars. However in all of the pull away examples I can find the letters are not disfigured. You can see a clear odd shape in the first 8, the bottom appears like a diamond.

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My first thought was pull-away toning as well. I almost immediately noticed the

odd shape of the numbers though. Very interesting.

 

I'm sure that the OP will find that the odd shape of the numerals is an optical illusion enhanced by the pull away toning and the sellers out of balance photographs.

 

I'm not clear if the second photograph is of the coin in hand or of another example of pull away toning. If the second photograph is the coin the hand then the OP has answered his own question.

 

Carl

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The second photo is not of the coin I own, the second photo is a picture of another coin that is a very nice example of pull away toning.

 

Doubling occurs much closer to the devices than is shown in the original photographs. That is why I believe you are dealing with photographic artifacts and pull away toning rather than true doubling. Please show photos when you receive the coin. It would be very interesting to see the true appearance of the coin.

 

Carl

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When I purchased this Morgan the other day I did so because the date looked really odd to me, at first I couldn’t tell if my eyes were playing tricks on me or not, and then I realized the stars have the same distinct doubling. I checked the variety plus and there isn’t anything listed for the 1882 s that would match what this coin has. Is this kind of thing is common on 1882 S Morgan dollars, and what exactly should it be classified as DDO, RPM, or other. I do not actively collect mint errors mainly because I don’t know much about them. Any comments are appreciated!

1882sDDOMorgan_zps9b7efab6.jpg

1882sDDOMorganrev_zpsa4f11b9e.jpg

 

There are several dozen 1882-S doubled date VAMs. However, all I can see from the pictures is textbook pull-away toning on the date and stars. Sometimes this is actually a disortion in the metal flow around design elements, and the odd shapped digist are very typical of die wear.

 

The images are not good enough to evaluate the date for actual repunching.

 

 

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1881-S and 1882-S Morgans are notorious for having strike doubling on the date. Your coin, in addition to the toning shadow mentioned earlier, also has this strike doubling, causing the edges of the digits that face the portrait to be smeared toward the rim, distorting the shape of the digits. This can make it extremely difficult to attribute the coin correctly.

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Hey guys, after a much needed vacation I can now post some more accurate pictures of the 1882 S Morgan. These are the best pictures I could muster up with a simple point and click and a loop.

 

241c3515-b6f8-4db1-8455-a93c76da325e_zps0ab3f798.jpg

 

The numbers on the picture correspond to the list below.

1. The top part of the “2” is distinctly higher than the rest of the design of the “2” creating a hub like structure.

2. There is a distinctly raised formation that appears to be the bottom of a “2” within the bottom of the 2.

3. There is a distinct “8” to the left side of the second “8” in the date, this not a shadow effect and is very distinct under magnification.

4. There are raised “dots” on the middle joints of both 8’s

Here are some additional pictures that may help; the first is the same picture as above without the arrows and numbers.

 

ngcsociety009_zpse23041f8.jpg

ngcsociety012_zpsea02b23e.jpg

ngcsociety013_zpsdd2128b9.jpg

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The raised lumps and raised edges on the digits are machine doubling damage. There may be some actual recutting on the upper left loop of the second 8, as well as the right side of the loop of the 2, and these features are not raised above the relief of the primary digits. This is a minor variety, and one of a great many for the date.

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Neat things can happen when coins are struck! I agree with John.

 

FWIW: Readers can find more information on how "mechanical doubling" occurs in the new book "From Mine to Mint."

 

(The book is being printed this week.)

 

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1882pic_zpsbab124c0.jpg

 

The presence of strike doubling does not rule out an actual variety, as any set of dies can create distortions.

 

The pictures appear to show distinct recutting of the 82 and possibly 1, as highlighted above. There are 30 VAMs for 1882, roughly 27 of them are recut dates, and other features, like mint mark placement and die scratches, are often needed to verify a variety. I cannot match it up from the pictures provided. Here is the VAMWorld link to every 1882 variety:

 

http://www.vamworld.com/1882-S+VAMs

 

Again, with so many 1882-S coins being recut dates, the interest in them is limited.

 

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