1899-O & 1881-S Morgans

[Deerefan8420]

Opinions wanted! Just got these in the mail today. I've got a grade in mind for both but would like to see what everyone else thinks! The 1881-S was a little harder to get some better pictures. The surfaces are very reflective and couldn't get it just right.

 

1899-O

 

1881-S

[BLive1972]

I'm not too good at pics, but I'll say 63 & 64.

 

edit...maybe even 62 on that 1899.

[Coindude]

I'm at 62 and 63 respectively.

[MarkFeld]

MS60 (or perhaps 61) and MS63.

[Deerefan8420]

Thanks for your opinion guys! I was at 62-63 for the 1899. And 63, maybe 63+ on the 1881. I'm still trying to get some better pictures of the 1881!

[MarkFeld]

Thanks for your opinion guys! I was at 62-63 for the 1899. And 63, maybe 63+ on the 1881. I'm still trying to get some better pictures of the 1881!

 

I don't know how well (or poorly) the images represent the coins. But based on what I can see, I can't fathom how you could consider the same grade for each coin. The face of the 1899-O looks like a wreck.

[$ilverHawk]

Opinions wanted! Just got these in the mail today. I've got a grade in mind for both but would like to see what everyone else thinks! The 1881-S was a little harder to get some better pictures. The surfaces are very reflective and couldn't get it just right.

 

1899-O

 

1881-S

 

Based on the pics, the 1899-O is known for an above average to bold strike which this coin has. However, the numerous hits on the Obverse in the focal areas detract strongly. MS61-62.

 

1881-S usually a bold strike. Pics suggest a bold strike with a few too many focal area hits to grade above MS63.

 

As an aside try this site www.coingrading.com by Scott Travers for a few insights into what to look for when appraising Morgan Dollars.

 

Carl

[Coindude]

Thanks for your opinion guys! I was at 62-63 for the 1899. And 63, maybe 63+ on the 1881. I'm still trying to get some better pictures of the 1881!

I don't know how well (or poorly) the images represent the coins. But based on what I can see, I can't fathom how you could consider the same grade for each coin. The face of the 1899-O looks like a wreck.

After reading Marks assessment of the coins I went back to see why I had missed the first grade by so much. Well, I went back and took a look and I would have to say that I totally blew it on that one. Maybe I had the second coin in my memory bank, but the first is a 61 at most. Thanks for keeping us straight Mark and calling it the way it is.

[Deerefan8420]

Carl, I appreciate the helpful informationt! I'll give them a look!

[Deerefan8420]

A couple of better pictures of the 1881-S.

 

[MarkFeld]

Now it looks like as 64.

[newprepper]

The face of the 1899-O looks like a wreck.

 

Hey Mark, do some of us a favor, we don't all know the "graders terminology", could you translate that for me?

[MarkFeld]

The face of the 1899-O looks like a wreck.

 

Hey Mark, do some of us a favor, we don't all know the "graders terminology", could you translate that for me?

 

I already stated that I would grade the coin MS60 or 61. So you may equate "wreck" with flaws significant enough to warrant such a low mint state grade.

[Deerefan8420]

Well either way, whether it grades MS60 or MS98.375, it's still good enough to fill in the hole for my set. My "grading standards" aren't as strict as some, but I'm sure they will develop into tighter limits over time. Can be the best right out of the gate!

[coinman_23885]

60

64 (solid)

[johnny9434]

ms 62/ms63

[Mary B]

MS-60, 63 to 64... scratches on the reverse on the left side are detracting along with that scratch on the lower jaw on the obverse

[jpcienkus]

1899 MS61

1881 S MS64

[Deerefan8420]

I believe those marks are made from the result of a polished die? the scratch doesnt go through on the high points of the design which makes me think that. I could be wrong!

[Kurtdog]

MS60 and MS64 (...what a world of difference that second set of pictures makes).

[J3_Dog]

I say 1st coin 61 PL and 2nd coin 61

[Deerefan8420]

1899-O came back as MS61. Mr. Feld hit that nail directly on the head as did a few others! The 1881-S came back as Unc. Details- Improperly Cleaned. Is there a possiblity that what I considered to be polishing lines on the reverse were actually marks from a previous cleaning, or could the grader have mistaken the polish lines as a cleaning? There are no other obvious signs of it being cleaned that I could see.

[Mr Bo Jingles]

I'm thinking MS60 or 61 at best for the 1899. It's pretty chewed up. If the 1881 grades I think around MS63, however, by the pictures I am going to guess this coin comes back bagged for improper cleaning. It's just a guess, but I would love to see how they come back if you send them in. I am trying to become a better grader. I am learning it is tough.

[Deerefan8420]

Grades came back already and are posted.

[coinman_23885]

Thanks for your opinion guys! I was at 62-63 for the 1899. And 63, maybe 63+ on the 1881. I'm still trying to get some better pictures of the 1881!

 

I don't know how well (or poorly) the images represent the coins. But based on what I can see, I can't fathom how you could consider the same grade for each coin. The face of the 1899-O looks like a wreck.

 

I agree. There should be at least a two to three point difference in my opinion. The first coin doesn't even compare to the second coin; it's not even remotely close.

[coinman_23885]

1899-O came back as MS61. Mr. Feld hit that nail directly on the head as did a few others! The 1881-S came back as Unc. Details- Improperly Cleaned. Is there a possiblity that what I considered to be polishing lines on the reverse were actually marks from a previous cleaning, or could the grader have mistaken the polish lines as a cleaning? There are no other obvious signs of it being cleaned that I could see.

 

How accurate are the photographs? Are there any hairlines or significant luster disturbances on the second piece consistent with a cleaning?

[Deerefan8420]

I havent received the coins back from NGC yet. The photos are fairly accurate as well. There are some hairlines on the reverse but they do not cross over the high points of the design or lettering. If you'll notice, the are some lines to the left of the Eagle that extend up and through the "D" in United. The lines stop at the lettering and then continue past the letters to the edge of the rim. It did not appear that any of the lines went across any of the raised portons of the lettering. That's what led me to believe they were die polish lines. I'll have to refer back to my notes when I get home to see what my initial observations were of this coin.

[coinman_23885]

I havent received the coins back from NGC yet. The photos are fairly accurate as well. There are some hairlines on the reverse but they do not cross over the high points of the design or lettering. If you'll notice, the are some lines to the left of the Eagle that extend up and through the "D" in United. The lines stop at the lettering and then continue past the letters to the edge of the rim. It did not appear that any of the lines went across any of the raised portons of the lettering. That's what led me to believe they were die polish lines. I'll have to refer back to my notes when I get home to see what my initial observations were of this coin.

 

Die polish lines will be raised above and will appear as such under magnification. Hairlines will look like marks made on/into the surface of the coin. The fact that the lines are in the fields versus the devices or vice versa means nothing. Based on the photo, I assumed they were die polish lines; if they are hairlines, then I could see the details grade.

[Deerefan8420]

From my notes based on the initial observation of the '81-S concerning the hairlines, "There are a few scattered hairlines on the Obverse. The hairlines on the Obverse are in the field to the left of the bust and beneath Liberty's Chin. The hairlines to the left of the bust appear to be straight and vertical lines and do not stray horizontally or diagonally, nor do they form any type of circular or irregular pattern which would indicate a cleaning. The hairlines beneath the chin are horizontal and do not stray in any other direction either as states before. Based on my observations, these hairlines seem to be the result of bag friction and do not necessarily indicate a cleaning.The lines are not deep or heavily scored into the surface of the coin. The lines on the Reverse appear to be Die Polish lines. These lines on the Reverse are in the field to the left of the Eagle. They are vertical lines which extend up and through the lettering of UNITED."

 

I did not get as detailed on the reverse because I thought those were Die Polish lines. When I get the coin in hand, I will see if they are raised lines and not lines that are scored into the surface of the coin.