GRADE POSTED -- Middlesex Ibberson DH-342 Conder Token

[brg5658]

So, what would you grade the token below?

 

It will be going in with my next NGC submission and I'd like to know what people here think it will come back graded!

 

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I recently picked up a 2nd example of the DH342 Ibberson's token (as many of you will recognize, this is my "avatar" token design). The surfaces are very clean, and it appears as though it may be bronzed. The strike is strong, and just a couple "divets" are seen on the reverse (they look like planchet flaws to me).

 

Even though it's raw, it's somewhat hard to capture the look of this one with pictures.

 

Image Set #1:

The first set of pictures are straight on (no diffusion, no tilting, no funny business), with three lights. The obverse shows some nice "semi-cameo" effect of the horse design. The reverse has a bit of uneven color in the lower right between 3 o'clock and 6 o'clock; but, this kind of color is quite common on Conders. It's not distracting at all. The edge lettering is clear, strong, and uninterrupted.

 

 

 

Image Set #2:

In this second set of images, I have tilted the token ever so slightly, and as such the reflective surfaces are more apparent. Also, interestingly, the obverse and reverse both reflect what I would call an "oil-slick" type iridescence of mostly blues. The surfaces are certainly original, and at least to my eye quite pleasing. When interpreting these images realize that this color is seen at a very narrow angle of view, but it is pleasing, and shows off some of the proof-like field surfaces. I have done ZERO adjustments to the images except to crop them circularly. The colors are accurate.

 

 

 

[coinman_23885]

64 BN

63 BN - Is that a lamination error or strike through on the reverse or deep hits?

 

For the record, this is not my series so my grading estimations are more for fun than of an informed opinion/recommendation.

[brg5658]

64 BN

63 BN - Is that a lamination error or strike through on the reverse or deep hits?

 

For the record, this is not my series so my grading estimations are more for fun than of an informed opinion/recommendation.

 

They are not hits, they are planchet flaws.

[CyberspaceVoid]

This Conder shows a wonderful strike, but I am going to guess MS63BN due to some "messiness" in the fields particularily between the horse and the dragon in the second set of images. And are those hairlines on the obverse to the right of the horse in the first set of images? I still hope you get a 64 ... good luck.

[brg5658]

 

This token is currently at NGC for grading -- should have the grade back in the next week or so. Any further guesses before the news comes back?

 

 

[Coindude]

I'm going with a guess of 64 although I could see this go higher and it wouldn't necessarily bother me at all. I have to ask what's going on the the rim of the reverse @ 1:30? Look like a scratch but hoping it's just a strikethrough.

[physics-fan3.14]

I'll go with the crowd and say 64 BN. I wouldn't be too surprised at a 65BN. I don't think the reverse has enough contrast for a PL, although the obverse is fantastic. They don't put Stars on these, but if they did, this one would be a lock for a star.

[brg5658]

I'm going with a guess of 64 although I could see this go higher and it wouldn't necessarily bother me at all. I have to ask what's going on the the rim of the reverse @ 1:30? Look like a scratch but hoping it's just a strikethrough.

 

It's not a scratch. My initial thoughts were that it was a strike through, possibly similar to the other two "indentations"/flaws above the ampersand (&) and above the "S" in "POST".

 

A little history about this token. The dies were prepared in late 1794 or early 1795. The tokens were to be struck for Christopher Ibberson in a fairly large quantity by Boulton at the SOHO shop. An article was published around the same time in London that hinted at the outlaw of private tokens, which made Ibberson tentative about going ahead with production of this token. Ibberson eventually backed out of the deal, but Boulton went ahead and struck a few of this token as specimen pieces to market to collectors. It is thought that as many as 300-400 of the token were struck. Strictly speaking, many would argue these are bronzed proofs or specimen pieces. The "bronzing" process accounts for the iridescence seen on the surfaces.

 

Also, just for information, many of what are being perceived as "hairlines" or "scratches," particularly on the obverse (e.g., between the horse and dragon) are die polish (diagnostic markers). I happen to own three examples of this scarce token, and have viewed in hand a 4th that belongs to a forum member here -- these "die markers" are present on all of the pieces I have seen.

 

Can you tell this is one of my absolutely favorite tokens.

[Catbert]

I'm going to guess 64. Love this design and know why you do too!

[Hard Times]

65 horse proof like!

 

Best, HT

[brg5658]

"Scheduled for Grading" for about 10-12 days now -- I think it should be graded before the end of this week...

[brg5658]

Grade just posted today. It came back at MS65BN, which I am very happy with. I think it's all there for that grade, having seen several of these (and owning 2 others).