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1868 aluminum proof set

Started by delta,

24 posts in this topic

delta

delta

Posted
Posted

Was anyone here watching the recent Heritage auction of the 16 piece 1868 US pattern proof set made in aluminum? It was lot 6006 on January 10th at Orlando:

 

aluminum set

 

The complete set of 16, all individually slabbed, with the box they came in, sold for 211K including commission.

 

That's an impressive sum, out of my own reach by far, but don't you think anyone who could afford to buy them will be able to make a substantial profit by breaking up the set and selling the pieces individually? Just my wild guess, but I'm thinking they can even double their money. Any other opinions?

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Was anyone here watching the recent Heritage auction of the 16 piece 1868 US pattern proof set made in aluminum? It was lot 6006 on January 10th at Orlando:

 

aluminum set

 

The complete set of 16, all individually slabbed, with the box they came in, sold for 211K including commission.

 

That's an impressive sum, out of my own reach by far, but don't you think anyone who could afford to buy them will be able to make a substantial profit by breaking up the set and selling the pieces individually? Just my wild guess, but I'm thinking they can even double their money. Any other opinions?

 

No, I don't necessarily think that the buyer can break the set up and make that type of a profit. Plenty of dealers could have afforded to buy the set. And it is likely that some of them would have bid it up higher if the individual coins were worth significantly more.

 

Even if the set is broken up and some of the coins sold for big money, it might be difficult to get strong money for the remaining coins.

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$ilverHawk

$ilverHawk

Posted
Posted
Was anyone here watching the recent Heritage auction of the 16 piece 1868 US pattern proof set made in aluminum? It was lot 6006 on January 10th at Orlando:

 

aluminum set

 

The complete set of 16, all individually slabbed, with the box they came in, sold for 211K including commission.

 

That's an impressive sum, out of my own reach by far, but don't you think anyone who could afford to buy them will be able to make a substantial profit by breaking up the set and selling the pieces individually? Just my wild guess, but I'm thinking they can even double their money. Any other opinions?

 

Important to note that the buyer is presently considering offers. There is significant numismatic and historical significance associated with this complete set. As such, the full set carries much more numismatic and financial appeal when transferred in it's entirety.

 

No, I don't believe the buyer would consider breaking up this set for a pure profit motive. Moreover, I'm not sure that your scenario would result in any increased profitability.

 

Carl

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Was anyone here watching the recent Heritage auction of the 16 piece 1868 US pattern proof set made in aluminum? It was lot 6006 on January 10th at Orlando:

 

aluminum set

 

The complete set of 16, all individually slabbed, with the box they came in, sold for 211K including commission.

 

That's an impressive sum, out of my own reach by far, but don't you think anyone who could afford to buy them will be able to make a substantial profit by breaking up the set and selling the pieces individually? Just my wild guess, but I'm thinking they can even double their money. Any other opinions?

 

Important to note that the buyer is presently considering offers. There is significant numismatic and historical significance associated with this complete set. As such, the full set carries much more numismatic and financial appeal when transferred in it's entirety.

 

No, I don't believe the buyer would consider breaking up this set for a pure profit motive. Moreover, I'm not sure that your scenario would result in any increased profitability.

 

Carl

 

Carl, I would not assume that the buyer is considering offers - if you are basing that on a message on the Heritage site, I think that is a default setting/message. And it will remain, unless the winning bidder changes it.

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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Posted

It would be a shame for it to be broken up, I spent 20 minutes with the set at lot viewing, it would be great to see it cracked and put back in its leather case.....

 

Best, HT

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delta

delta

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It had been only my uneducated guess the individual pieces might sell for a lot more than 211K, and it had occurred to me that maybe buyers at the auction prepared to pay above that amount for the set, maybe at least 225K, were either not watching carefully or were overcommitted with other lots. But it seems I was wrong there, and there wasn't an opportunity for a big windfall profit, thanks for the info.

 

As for breaking up the set, already having each coin individually slabbed makes it very prone to being disassembled, although certainly I agree with those who would prefer it remain intact for historical purposes and aesthetic reasons. Any word on who the buyer was and if any plans for the set have been divulged? (Disclaimer -- I'm not a potential buyer for any of the coins involved).

 

 

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$ilverHawk

$ilverHawk

Posted
Posted
Was anyone here watching the recent Heritage auction of the 16 piece 1868 US pattern proof set made in aluminum? It was lot 6006 on January 10th at Orlando:

 

aluminum set

 

The complete set of 16, all individually slabbed, with the box they came in, sold for 211K including commission.

 

That's an impressive sum, out of my own reach by far, but don't you think anyone who could afford to buy them will be able to make a substantial profit by breaking up the set and selling the pieces individually? Just my wild guess, but I'm thinking they can even double their money. Any other opinions?

 

Important to note that the buyer is presently considering offers. There is significant numismatic and historical significance associated with this complete set. As such, the full set carries much more numismatic and financial appeal when transferred in it's entirety.

 

No, I don't believe the buyer would consider breaking up this set for a pure profit motive. Moreover, I'm not sure that your scenario would result in any increased profitability.

 

Carl

 

Carl, I would not assume that the buyer is considering offers - if you are basing that on a message on the Heritage site, I think that is a default setting/message. And it will remain, unless the winning bidder changes it.

 

Yes, the first part of my post was based on the Heritage site message. The rest of my post stands.

 

Carl

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RWB

RWB

Posted
Posted

This press copy letter popped up today while examining Treasury correspondence from 1867. It might be of interest in relation to experiments for aluminum coinage.

 

"July 11, 1867

 

H.R. Linderman

U S Mint, Philadelphia

 

Your letter of June 14th enclosing communication from the Engraver of the Mint, in relation to the use of aluminum for coinage purposes, together with the specimen 5 cent pieces struck in that metal has been received.

 

The specimens of coins are beautiful, but the law does not authorize and it will not probably be expedient to use this material while it continues at its present price, or until its value becomes more fixed and permanent.

 

Secretary of the Treasury"

 

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BillJones

BillJones

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Posted
Was anyone here watching the recent Heritage auction of the 16 piece 1868 US pattern proof set made in aluminum? It was lot 6006 on January 10th at Orlando:

 

aluminum set

 

The complete set of 16, all individually slabbed, with the box they came in, sold for 211K including commission.

 

That's an impressive sum, out of my own reach by far, but don't you think anyone who could afford to buy them will be able to make a substantial profit by breaking up the set and selling the pieces individually? Just my wild guess, but I'm thinking they can even double their money. Any other opinions?

 

In this case I think that the piece parts would be worth less than the whole, especially with the original case of issue.

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BOILER78

BOILER78

Posted
Posted

 

RWB here is my example of Judd 561 which treasury secretary McCulloch refers to in his letter to Henry Linderman. I think it is the best nickel design ever proposed and one of the best pattern designs ever created.

 

b20j561.jpg

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RWB

RWB

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J-561 - agreed, a very appealing design. The reverse would have been difficult to coin, though.

 

The set is magnificent.....nothing else !!!

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BOILER78

BOILER78

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Coindude- There were 4 sets made supposedly for diplomatic purposes but given mint director Linderman's propensity to creat rarities for his personal gain it is no surprise that none of them left the country. When Linderman's collection was scheduled for auction in 1887 the U.S. government halted the sale and confiscated the set as well as other pattern coins. The set was reportedly destroyed.

 

A second set from the estate of treasury secretary Hugh McCulloch currently resides in the Newman money museum in St Louis. Evidently Eric Newman felt the set was too important to part with when his pattern coins were sold at auction earlier this year?

 

The third set (the subject of this thread) is from the Garrett collection and was sold by Heritage at FUN 2013.

 

My set (the fourth set) is ex Waldo Newcomer. Initially I thought the Garrett set was slightly finer than the Newcomer set but after careful comparison at lot viewing, I have changed my opinion. Of course ownership usually adds a point or two so I might be biased ;) in addition the original case from the Garrett set is badly damaged and one of the glass panes is broken.

 

As to the break up value of the Garrett set..... I feel that it sold for a slight premium to the individual coin values which IMO is around 200k.

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Kevin J Flynn

Kevin J Flynn

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Posted

I just finished research and a book, Experiments on Aluminum Coinage, one of the primary focus on the archives was the 1868 Alum proof sets.

 

There were 11 1868 Aluminum Proof sets struck between April and July of 1868.

 

Kevin

www.kevinjflynn.com

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