1839-D

[cameron12x]

Obviously cleaned. What is the technical grade?

 

 

What would be a "net" grade for this piece?

[newprepper]

I think VF-35. The shield on the reverse is between 30-40. Too bad about the scratching on the obverse behind the hair

[newprepper]

What is that going on inside the 9 of the date?

[cameron12x]

What is that going on inside the 9 of the date?

I believe it's a fairly common overstrike.

[HiHoAudio]

VF-35 net works for me.

 

I would be proud to own that coin.

[cameron12x]

VF-35 net works for me.

 

I would be proud to own that coin.

Even with the cleaning would you give it a "net" VF-35 grade? Anyone else with an opinion?

[L1ncolnF4n]

VF-30+

[cameron12x]

VF-30+

Is that a "net" grade or a technical grade?

[BillJones]

What is that going on inside the 9 of the date?

 

All of them have a recut final digit in the date. Some people have called it a nine over an eight.

 

Now that I can see on my home computer I'd net grade it to VF-30 or so. The surfaces have been stripped of all originality.

[cameron12x]

What is that going on inside the 9 of the date?

 

All of them have a recut final digit in the date. Some people have called it a nine over an eight.

 

Now that I can see on my home computer I'd net grade it to VF-30 or so. The surfaces have been stripped of all originality.

I completely agree about the lack of original surfaces. I meant to say recut earlier.

 

As a general question, with net grading, what is the general rule of thumb? -10 pts? -20 pts? Does the coin type come into play? Are there other considerations, too?

 

How subjective is "net" grading? Just curious.

[FishyOne]

What is that going on inside the 9 of the date?

 

All of them have a recut final digit in the date. Some people have called it a nine over an eight.

 

Now that I can see on my home computer I'd net grade it to VF-30 or so. The surfaces have been stripped of all originality.

I completely agree about the lack of original surfaces. I meant to say recut earlier.

 

As a general question, with net grading, what is the general rule of thumb? -10 pts? -20 pts? Does the coin type come into play? Are there other considerations, too?

 

How subjective is "net" grading? Just curious.

 

I'm not an expert in this series, or any series for that matter! Take my comments as MHO.

 

Your coin exhibits XF40 Detail with a harsh cleaning.

 

There is no general rule of thumb for net grading. Scarce and rare dates are usually not hurt as much when net grading. Knocking 10 pts off a coin like this is not much at all. I'd drop it to VF20 or 50% of the value for an attractive, problem-free XF piece. Common dates would likely be hurt even more so yes; type, MM, date, series all play a role.

 

Net grading a not used by many people these days. It is subjective.

[cameron12x]

What is that going on inside the 9 of the date?

 

All of them have a recut final digit in the date. Some people have called it a nine over an eight.

 

Now that I can see on my home computer I'd net grade it to VF-30 or so. The surfaces have been stripped of all originality.

I completely agree about the lack of original surfaces. I meant to say recut earlier.

 

As a general question, with net grading, what is the general rule of thumb? -10 pts? -20 pts? Does the coin type come into play? Are there other considerations, too?

 

How subjective is "net" grading? Just curious.

 

I'm not an expert in this series, or any series for that matter! Take my comments as MHO.

 

Your coin exhibits XF40 Detail with a harsh cleaning.

 

There is no general rule of thumb for net grading. Scarce and rare dates are usually not hurt as much when net grading. Knocking 10 pts off a coin like this is not much at all. I'd drop it to VF20 or 50% of the value for an attractive, problem-free XF piece. Common dates would likely be hurt even more so yes; type, MM, date, series all play a role.

 

Net grading a not used by many people these days. It is subjective.

Thanks for your insight... much appreciated!

 

For what it's worth, there are only "about" 200 examples of this particular issue which have survived from the original mintage of 13,674.

 

I imagine this example is "about" at the 50th percentile (maybe a little better) as far as absolute wear goes, putting it in the top 100 for the issue? That's just my subjective opinion.

 

Any others?

[BillJones]

It all depends upon how you feel about defects when it comes to this issue. I've been shopping for an example of 1839-D quarter eagle for several months. The best one that has been offered recently to my knowledge was a PCGS MS-62 that was really nice. It was in a Stacks' sale, and it sold for one bid beyond my limit, which was just over the consigner's reserve.

 

I have turned down several others which were all over graded IMO. A couple of them had big scratches on them which would have "bugged me," and I refuse to pay thousands of dollars for coins that "bug me." One of the over graded pieces went to another dealer for the price it was offered to me so maybe I'm too fussy. Still I didn't like the piece for the asking price.

 

The best one for the money that I've seen was in a Stacks' auction last spring. It was an AU graded piece which I liked, but I bought my 1796 No Stars Quarter Eagle at that sale, and after spending that much I didn't have the guts to tell the wife I'd spent that much more. Besides one never knows about auctions. The winning bidder might have kept going and would have knocked me out at a higher price.

 

I would love you coin if it had its original surfaces. It appears not to have had any damage until someone decided to "improve" it. This coin is supposed to be easier to find than the 1838-C quarter eagle, but so far that has not been my experience with it.

 

[cameron12x]

Thanks for the background on some of your purchasing dilemmas, Bill... very interesting!

 

Although you and I are working at different price and affordability points, I believe we both face the same dilemma with Classic Head gold from the branch mints. It's just TOUGH to find problem-free examples at affordable prices in any grade. Most of the really good ones are probably in tightly held collections, and usually never come for sale unless someone passes away.

 

As for this particular example, my dislikes are:

 

1. overall lack of original surfaces.

2. heavy scrubbing or possibly very light tooling on the obverse in the field behind Miss Liberty's head.

3. planchet flaw on the reverse below the "ES" in States.

4. small nick in the mint mark.

 

Does anyone else see other distractions?

 

I like most of the rest of the coin. This particular issue is pretty tough to come by (about 200 examples remain extant), and I don't have an unlimited budget. A problem-free example would likely cost twice what I paid for this (perhaps even more). Down the road I can probably upgrade to a better example, but I believe for now that I'll keep this one, problems and all. That year and mint (Dahlonega) are just too historic to pass up right now.

 

Next on the want list is an affordable 1839-C QE with XF details. I once had a 1838-C QE with XF-AU details, but it was stolen. I really miss that coin.

[BillJones]

1. overall lack of original surfaces.

 

The big negative for me.

 

2. heavy scrubbing or possibly very light tooling on the obverse in the field behind Miss Liberty's head.

 

Also a source of concern for me.

 

3. planchet flaw on the reverse below the "ES" in States.

 

Small enough that I don't care about it. This is the Dahlonega mint after all.

 

4. small nick in the mint mark.

 

You could find that on a Mint State coin. It would be better if it was not there, but if the coin had not been "messed with" I would not care about that.

[coinman_23885]

XF details, worth VF money.

[cameron12x]

We're on the same page, Bill. My list was sorted in descending order of importance. Flaws #3 and #4 are insignificant whereas flaws #1 and #2 are very significant. It's all about the money, and how much one is willing (and can afford) to spend.

 

Doug Winters has a very nice 1839-D which apparently was just added to his inventory?

 

 

Now that's a nice example for the grade!

[coinman_23885]

We're on the same page, Bill. My list was sorted in descending order of importance. Flaws #3 and #4 are insignificant whereas flaws #1 and #2 are very significant. It's all about the money, and how much one is willing (and can afford) to spend.

 

Doug Winters has a very nice 1839-D which apparently was just added to his inventory?

 

 

Now that's a nice example for the grade!

 

I actually don't care very much for Doug's coin.

[cameron12x]

I actually don't care very much for Doug's coin.

Why is that, if I may ask?

[FishyOne]

Not speaking for coinman_23885 but my concern on Doug's piece is the number of contact marks that detract from eye appeal. The color is good and the surfaces look original though - big pluses. I think the piece would have graded 40 except for the numerous and heavy contact marks.

 

 

[toyman-migration]

VF-35

[cameron12x]

VF-35

Which coin? Mine or Doug's? Is that a "net" grade or a technical grade?

[BillJones]

I actually don't care very much for Doug's coin.

 

I was intrigued by this piece because, believe it or not, it is better than most of the pieces I have seen. It would not look good next to the other Dahlonega pieces I have in my type set, however, so I was not that unset when I saw that it was "on hold" already.

 

Sometimes coins seem to appear in cycles. A number of nice examples come on the market for a stretch and then the supply finds new homes and disappears. According to the what the experts say, this coin is not as tough as the 1838-C quarter eagle, but from what I see at the shows and the auctions it looks like it is a lot tougher to find, at least in attractive states of preservation.

 

[cameron12x]

Anyone know where an affordable VF-30 to XF-45 1838-C or 1839-C QE can be found?

[BillJones]

Anyone know where an affordable VF-30 to XF-45 1838-C or 1839-C QE can be found?

 

All of the pieces listed on the "Collectors Corner" site are AU or better and go for $5,560 and up. There have been a lot of them in auctions recently. The biggest trouble I find with circulated Classic Head $2.50 pieces is that they are often fairly banged up with a lot of marks.

[coinman_23885]

I actually don't care very much for Doug's coin.

Why is that, if I may ask?

 

I realize that it is a circulated piece, but there are too many contact marks for my liking. I would rather pass and save up the money for a nicer, higher grade example that is XF, AU, or if the funds are available, MS piece. I would also look for pieces with clean surfaces.

[FishyOne]

Anyone know where an affordable VF-30 to XF-45 1838-C or 1839-C QE can be found?

 

You could make an offer on this 1839-C G$2.50. I like it.

 

eBay Link

[coinman_23885]

If I were the OP and looking to add a coin to my set, I would set aside a couple hundred from each pay check (or as much as I could afford as side money) and accumulate it over a period of time. I would then look at the next major Stacks-Bowers, Heritage, or other similar sale, sending an expert to view the lots on my behalf if I was unable to attend (and I personally would probably retain one anyway). There are several dealers on the boards who offer very reasonable auction viewing fees.

 

I would buy a nice coin in as high a grade as you can afford with clean surfaces. I personally prefer XF or higher, but VF is fine as well. I wouldn't purchase a coin grading less than VF as my experience has been that most collectors of southern gold will not accept pieces grading less than VF or at least the demand will be significantly reduced. I would also shy away from problem coins. For me, I would look for a well struck, nice original colored coin, and have relatively mark free surfaces. Also, I don't like the bright yellow coins that are commercially acceptable, but nevertheless do not look original to me. A circulated gold coin that is more than a 150 years old shouldn't look that way if it is original. This may not be an easy feat, but for me, it would be worth the effort.

[cameron12x]

Anyone know where an affordable VF-30 to XF-45 1838-C or 1839-C QE can be found?

 

You could make an offer on this 1839-C G$2.50. I like it.

 

eBay Link

Thanks for the link.

 

I usually like die breaks, but in this case they distract me too much.

 

Nonetheless, still a very nice coin.

[cameron12x]

Anyone know where an affordable VF-30 to XF-45 1838-C or 1839-C QE can be found?

 

All of the pieces listed on the "Collectors Corner" site are AU or better and go for $5,560 and up. There have been a lot of them in auctions recently. The biggest trouble I find with circulated Classic Head $2.50 pieces is that they are often fairly banged up with a lot of marks.

Thanks Bill... those price points might be the "new" affordable range for this elusive issue. Right now I can't afford them, but probably will at some point in the future. In the meantime, I might have to "settle" for a lower graded example or one with issues.

 

Still, in the meantime, I'm very proud to own my first-ever Dahlonega!