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1941 Mercury Dime -- GRADE REVEALED

Started by brg5658,

26 posts in this topic

MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
I'll guess 66+ FB. I think the mark on the torch keeps it from a 67.

 

Based on many others I have seen graded MS67, I do not think those marks would preclude such a grade.

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brg5658

brg5658

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I'll just give a bit of the grade/designation away, and ask for continued discussion here.

 

Firstly, as with a few other designations, NGC and PCGS do not assign the "FB" designation in the same way. NGC only assigns the "FB" designation to Mercury dimes which exhibit both fully split, and raised/rounded uninterrupted bands. PCGS, alternatively, will assign the FB designation for any dime that exhibits fully split uninterrupted bands, even if the bands are not raised/rounded.

 

For illustration, I borrow a graphic from the February 2000 issue of the Numismatist:

 

PCGS would designate the two bottom illustrations "FB".

 

NGC would designate only the bottom illustration as "FB".

 

merc1.jpg

 

Despite the fact that every person who has posted here so far agreed on FB, the coin I posted above did not receive the "FB" designation from NGC. My guess is because, while the bands are uninterrupted and split, they are not rounded/raised. (shrug)

 

I will reveal the full grade of this dime later this evening.

 

-Brandon

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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Despite the fact that every person who has posted here so far agreed on FB, the coin I posted above did not receive the "FB" designation from NGC. My guess is because, while the bands are uninterrupted and split, they are not rounded/raised. (shrug)

 

I have seen NGC FB designated coins with similar bands. I would consider sending it in (with your next NGC submission) for a designation review. I am a bit surprised that it did not receive a FB designation. It's a great coin regardless.

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brg5658

brg5658

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Star is probably for nearly full bands along with toning.

 

The ★ (star) is only given to non-proof strike coins for one of two reasons.

 

1) Exceptional eye appeal (toning, exceptional luster, etc.)

2) Near prooflike surfaces, or completely prooflike surfaces but only on one side.

 

It is never given to denote an "almost" concept for a designation like FB.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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Star is probably for nearly full bands along with toning.

 

The ★ (star) is only given to non-proof strike coins for one of two reasons.

 

1) Exceptional eye appeal (toning, exceptional luster, etc.)

2) Near prooflike surfaces, or completely prooflike surfaces but only on one side.

 

It is never given to denote an "almost" concept for a designation like FB.

 

I agree with this.

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brg5658

brg5658

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Star is probably for nearly full bands along with toning.

 

The ★ (star) is only given to non-proof strike coins for one of two reasons.

 

1) Exceptional eye appeal (toning, exceptional luster, etc.)

2) Near prooflike surfaces, or completely prooflike surfaces but only on one side.

 

It is never given to denote an "almost" concept for a designation like FB.

 

I agree with this.

 

I would factor nearly FB in to #1 for eye appeal.

 

And you would be wrong.

 

Designations like FB (full bands), FH (full head), FBL (full bell lines), FS (full steps), etc. are either there or not there. The ★ (star) has nothing to do with an "almost" state of these designations. If you think otherwise, then you are confused.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

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Designations like FB (full bands), FH (full head), FBL (full bell lines), FS (full steps), etc. are either there or not there. The ★ (star) has nothing to do with an "almost" state of these designations. If you think otherwise, then you are confused.

 

You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately, one of the biggest criticisms of the Star designation is that it means different things on different coins (and there really is no way to tell). On proof coins, the Star does mean that it just misses the next higher designation (CAM or UCAM)

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brg5658

brg5658

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Designations like FB (full bands), FH (full head), FBL (full bell lines), FS (full steps), etc. are either there or not there. The ★ (star) has nothing to do with an "almost" state of these designations. If you think otherwise, then you are confused.

 

You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately, one of the biggest criticisms of the Star designation is that it means different things on different coins (and there really is no way to tell). On proof coins, the Star does mean that it just misses the next higher designation (CAM or UCAM)

 

Yes, I agree Jason...I hate this ambiguity in the use of the star.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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Designations like FB (full bands), FH (full head), FBL (full bell lines), FS (full steps), etc. are either there or not there. The ★ (star) has nothing to do with an "almost" state of these designations. If you think otherwise, then you are confused.

 

You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately, one of the biggest criticisms of the Star designation is that it means different things on different coins (and there really is no way to tell). On proof coins, the Star does mean that it just misses the next higher designation (CAM or UCAM)

 

I take exception to your last statement. A star on the proof coin can either mean (1) the coin is superbly toned or (2) the cameo issue that you allude to in your post. Your post makes it seem if the star is only given to proof coins for the latter and not the former.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

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Designations like FB (full bands), FH (full head), FBL (full bell lines), FS (full steps), etc. are either there or not there. The ★ (star) has nothing to do with an "almost" state of these designations. If you think otherwise, then you are confused.

 

You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately, one of the biggest criticisms of the Star designation is that it means different things on different coins (and there really is no way to tell). On proof coins, the Star does mean that it just misses the next higher designation (CAM or UCAM)

 

I take exception to your last statement. A star on the proof coin can either mean (1) the coin is superbly toned or (2) the cameo issue that you allude to in your post. Your post makes it seem if the star is only given to proof coins for the latter and not the former.

 

Thanks for the clarification. It can mean either. My post was intended to contrast the "almost cameo" of the star on proof coins with the not-used "almost FB" on business strike coins. And so, you see why there can be confusion as to the meaning of the star!

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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Designations like FB (full bands), FH (full head), FBL (full bell lines), FS (full steps), etc. are either there or not there. The ★ (star) has nothing to do with an "almost" state of these designations. If you think otherwise, then you are confused.

 

You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately, one of the biggest criticisms of the Star designation is that it means different things on different coins (and there really is no way to tell). On proof coins, the Star does mean that it just misses the next higher designation (CAM or UCAM)

 

I take exception to your last statement. A star on the proof coin can either mean (1) the coin is superbly toned or (2) the cameo issue that you allude to in your post. Your post makes it seem if the star is only given to proof coins for the latter and not the former.

 

Thanks for the clarification. It can mean either. My post was intended to contrast the "almost cameo" of the star on proof coins with the not-used "almost FB" on business strike coins. And so, you see why there can be confusion as to the meaning of the star!

 

I know you knew the difference, but I posted that for others who might not. Nevertheless, I understand your problem with the ambiguity of the star. It would be nice if there was a code or something on the label to indicate what it was for. That, and as you and Brandon mention, there is enormous variability in the amount of eye appeal required for the designation, especially early when they first started designating the coins. There are many coins I have seen that deserved stars and did not get them, and then I have seen coins with only a scintilla of toning or what not that actually receive the designation.

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