Record keeping at TPG's and CAC

[newprepper]

If in their opinion their opinion is wrong they'll give you your money back--guaranteed.

 

exactly what i was going to say

 

i think they should have a 4th party doing their appearance reviews, or their guarantee to replace or pay back the difference on misgraded coins is worth nothing.

they can't check THEMSELVES for mistakes in past grading.

 

Kinda like asking a Dr if he is guilty of malpractice

[Kurtdog]

If in their opinion their opinion is wrong they'll give you your money back--guaranteed.

exactly what i was going to say

 

i think they should have a 4th party doing their appearance reviews, or their guarantee to replace or pay back the difference on misgraded coins is worth nothing.

 

they can't check THEMSELVES for mistakes in past grading.

Yonico, PCGS has the best guarantee in the business, didn't you hear? That's all I heard when I was over there. Even their President isn't ashamed to mention it. Like he expects nobody there knows how to think.

 

Maybe he's onto something, who knows?

[Kurtdog]

Please refrain from registry comments, but rather start a new thread on that topic if you wish.

Well now ain't you a stubborn little thing.

[yonico]

If in their opinion their opinion is wrong they'll give you your money back--guaranteed.

 

exactly what i was going to say

 

i think they should have a 4th party doing their appearance reviews, or their guarantee to replace or pay back the difference on misgraded coins is worth nothing.

they can't check THEMSELVES for mistakes in past grading.

 

Kinda like asking a Dr if he is guilty of malpractice

 

yeah as if INTERNAL AFFAIRS BUREAU was run by cops

[yonico]

My post has NOTHING to do with registry. Please refrain from registry comments, but rather start a new thread on that topic if you wish.

 

Let me revise my original question (and I apologize if the answer was buried in the previous replies) and make it as simple as possible:

 

For NGC to PCGS crossover and vice versa, does the TPG check the slab number to see if was previously submitted. If so, do they treat it as a new crossover submission or automatically reject it?

 

Thank You.

 

 

my comments about the registry weren't making the registry the main subject, but just to show how the registry rules and crossover rules contradict eachother, and how it only makes sense that they will crossover pcgs coins automatically.

i did not mean to stir away from the question in the original post. sorry

 

i would love to see an NGC moderator's response to the questions in this thread.

 

 

[yonico]

If in their opinion their opinion is wrong they'll give you your money back--guaranteed.

exactly what i was going to say

 

i think they should have a 4th party doing their appearance reviews, or their guarantee to replace or pay back the difference on misgraded coins is worth nothing.

 

they can't check THEMSELVES for mistakes in past grading.

Yonico, PCGS has the best guarantee in the business, didn't you hear? That's all I heard when I was over there. Even their President isn't ashamed to mention it. Like he expects nobody there knows how to think.

 

Maybe he's onto something, who knows?

 

when someone compliments himself, saying he's the best, it does nothing to me.

they should let their customers decide if they're the best or not.

one thing i know for sure - PCGS's board moderators are DEFINITELY not the best . just look at them the wrong way and they ban you.

 

 

[BAJJERFAN]

Sorry, I believe my comment was not well written, let me expand a little and please note that comments that are note posted as "facts", aren't facts

 

As I said in my comment, I did NOT read it anywhere on the NGC website, and I did not get any official NGC comment on the subject of "automatic crossover", but I was told that by several people in the business, one was VERY close to the action so I kinda take his word on it.

 

* FACT: NGC allows PCGS graded coins on it's registry, and automatically gives it the same score as their own graded coins. That goes Only for PCGS coins. ALL COINS GRADED BY PCGS.

 

My Comments: Why's that? If NGC believes some of PCGS's coins might be overgraded, is it not UNFAIR to give pcgs coins the same score and so maybe hurt the registry sets that are made of NGC coins only? I guess they "automatically" trust pcgs to grade these coins correctly..?

I'm not saying NGC are inconsistent with their grading, and am NOT trying to criticise it - just that if they fully trust PCGS's grading - then why not do automatic crossover? And if they don't trust PCGS 100%, why allow pcgs graded coins on the registry for same point score?

 

FACT: crossovers from PCGS are NOT treated as "first time submitted" coins. For crossovers from all other TPG's, you now have to sign a release form that allows NGC to crack the coin out of the slab and examine it as if the coin was submitted raw.

For crossovers from PCGS, however, the coin may be examined in the PCGS slab BEFORE crossing it into an NGC holder.

 

comment: That's a BIG difference.

 

FACT: PCGS won't even grade GSA Morgans or BROWN IKES through the plastic they were packed in by the government/the mint, but will take em out to take a closer look.

 

SARCASTIC FACT: But NGC can grade crossover coins through the PCGS slab plastic, that sometimes has scuffs, scratches and even glue residue on it..

 

Everything in my posts that is not PRESENTED as a fact, is usually not.

It's very possible I'm mistaken..

 

=====

 

Mark, you were right about the CAC question. it does not make sense to me though.

I still think it's very hard (for CAC graders) to keep an "open mind" about a coin, If you check and see that it was rejected before. I find that most people that have slabbed coins and don't agree with the assigned grade, will crack the coin out and send it raw rather than send it in the holder for review.

I believe that A coin that was MISTAKENLY certified as "details" has better chances to make it into a problem-free holder if re-submitted raw, rather than sent in the "details" holder for a review, don't you think?

Why would CAC first check the coin's history, and then try to "subjectively" re-evaluate it? If you know it was rejected before, you'll be LOOKING for the problem on the coin, probably stretching it sometimes..

 

this is from their website:

 

 

" Are the serial numbers of PCGS or NGC coins submitted to CAC for verification recorded? If so, are coins automatically rejected by CAC that have previously been submitted but were not stickered?

 

The serial numbers of all PCGS and NGC coins that are submitted to CAC are recorded at the time they are entered into the CAC system.

 

All PCGS or NGC coins that are submitted to CAC are reviewed for CAC verification whether they have previously been submitted to CAC or not. Occasionally a coin that has previously been rejected for CAC verification is reconsidered by CAC and stickered. "

 

NGC most assuredly does NOT automatically cross over PCGS coins. I understand your confusion resulting from NGC's acceptance of PCGS coins in the registry. But that dos not change the facts about crossovers.

 

In the case of CAC, I don't know whether they check the cert numbers of coins (to see if they have previously rejected them) before or after they render an opinion on a given coin. If it's after the coin evaluation, the coin is being viewed objectively. And if it's before, they still change their minds on occasion.

 

Not sure if CAC checks for previous submission before or after grading, but if a coin is resubmitted and still doesn't sticker the fees are not refunded. On the first go round if the coin doesn't sticker there is no charge. Subsequent resubmissions are charged the fee if the coin doesn't bean.

[TomB]

I'll reply to a few topics covered in this thread-

 

1) NGC has its own proprietary grading standards that are similar to, but not the same as, the propietary grading standards employed by PCGS. All PCGS certified coins sent to NGC for crossover are graded as per NGC guidelines and are most assuredly not automatically given the grade that PCGS gave the coins.

 

2) The NGC registry accepts PCGS coins because PCGS has/had a dominant position in the registry niche by virtue of establishing the first registry and through shrewd marketing. Those in a position of decision making at NGC likely thought that an all-NGC registry might be lacking in participation, but if one piggy-backed onto the PCGS registry then the participation would accelerate.

 

3) CAC keeps the certification records of all coins it evaluates. They will, however, award a green sticker to a coin previously rejected and will award a gold sticker to a coin currently with a green sticker. They go on a coin-by-coin basis, as they should.

[Kurtdog]

1) NGC has its own proprietary grading standards that are similar to, but not the same as, the propietary grading standards employed by PCGS. All PCGS certified coins sent to NGC for crossover are graded as per NGC guidelines and are most assuredly not automatically given the grade that PCGS gave the coins.

 

2) The NGC registry accepts PCGS coins because PCGS has/had a dominant position in the registry niche by virtue of establishing the first registry and through shrewd marketing. Those in a position of decision making at NGC likely thought that an all-NGC registry might be lacking in participation, but if one piggy-backed onto the PCGS registry then the participation would accelerate.

It's really simpler than that. NGC's reputation is on the line when it slabs a coin and slaps a grade on it, and it's not on the line for PCGS-graded coins it allows to play in its registry.

[MarkFeld]

Not sure if CAC checks for previous submission before or after grading, but if a coin is resubmitted and still doesn't sticker the fees are not refunded. On the first go round if the coin doesn't sticker there is no charge. Subsequent resubmissions are charged the fee if the coin doesn't bean.

 

Dealers are charged on the first go round, as well as subsequent ones.

[wheat'swheats]

Collectors will be also after first of the year

wheat

[Mozin]

I'll reply to a few topics covered in this thread-

 

1) NGC has its own proprietary grading standards that are similar to, but not the same as, the propietary grading standards employed by PCGS. All PCGS certified coins sent to NGC for crossover are graded as per NGC guidelines and are most assuredly not automatically given the grade that PCGS gave the coins.

 

2) The NGC registry accepts PCGS coins because PCGS has/had a dominant position in the registry niche by virtue of establishing the first registry and through shrewd marketing. Those in a position of decision making at NGC likely thought that an all-NGC registry might be lacking in participation, but if one piggy-backed onto the PCGS registry then the participation would accelerate.

 

3) CAC keeps the certification records of all coins it evaluates. They will, however, award a green sticker to a coin previously rejected and will award a gold sticker to a coin currently with a green sticker. They go on a coin-by-coin basis, as they should.

 

 

Thank you for stating these issues so well. What you state is what I believe to be the case(s) also. It does make me wonder why there is so much discussion on this forum about these issues on many threads. Sometimes, I think poster just want to post, no matter what relevance to realty.

[JIM F.]

Sometimes, I think poster just want to post, no matter what relevance to realty.

 

As the OP, I find this a bit insulting and don't appreciate your comment. You may also want to use spell checker unless you seem to believe the topic involves real estate.

 

[Mozin]

Sometimes, I think poster just want to post, no matter what relevance to realty.

 

As the OP, I find this a bit insulting and don't appreciate your comment. You may also want to use spell checker unless you seem to believe the topic involves real estate.

 

Sorry Jimbucks, I forgot to put the "s" in "posters". What a big deal! Happens all the time with people typing wrong. My post had nothing to do with your starting this thread, only some of the posts within it. I did not in any way say your thread was not worthy, because it is worthy, and I enjoyed it. Your post slamming me is simply out of line. You best relax a bit.

[JIM F.]

Sometimes, I think poster just want to post, no matter what relevance to realty.

 

As the OP, I find this a bit insulting and don't appreciate your comment. You may also want to use spell checker unless you seem to believe the topic involves real estate.

 

Sorry Jimbucks, I forgot to put the "s" in "posters". What a big deal! Happens all the time with people typing wrong. My post had nothing to do with your starting this thread, only some of the posts within it. I did not in any way say your thread was not worthy, because it is worthy, and I enjoyed it. Your post slamming me is simply out of line. You best relax a bit.

 

OK Thank You.

[coinman_23885]

I'll reply to a few topics covered in this thread-

 

1) NGC has its own proprietary grading standards that are similar to, but not the same as, the propietary grading standards employed by PCGS. All PCGS certified coins sent to NGC for crossover are graded as per NGC guidelines and are most assuredly not automatically given the grade that PCGS gave the coins.

 

2) The NGC registry accepts PCGS coins because PCGS has/had a dominant position in the registry niche by virtue of establishing the first registry and through shrewd marketing. Those in a position of decision making at NGC likely thought that an all-NGC registry might be lacking in participation, but if one piggy-backed onto the PCGS registry then the participation would accelerate.

 

3) CAC keeps the certification records of all coins it evaluates. They will, however, award a green sticker to a coin previously rejected and will award a gold sticker to a coin currently with a green sticker. They go on a coin-by-coin basis, as they should.

 

This is the best post to this thread so far, and as usual, Mr. Bush is spot on.

[CoinPulsive PCM]

So. NGC doesn't necessarily agree with the PCGS grades in the registry sets, and that's how that dilemma is reconciled. You see, I thought they did agree with them.

 

I know what you said is in reference to the NGC registry sets, but what about submissions?

 

I know NGC grades coins slightly different than PCGS, I believe a good example would be FBL Franklins. From my understanding, PCGS requires only one set of Bell Lines to be 100% visible, but NGC requires both sets of Bell Lines in order to receive the FBL designation.

 

I could be mistaken, I am not sure. I prefer the NGC slabs over the PCGS ones but I always was concerned about crossing coins over to NGC. I know that I can put a minimum acceptable grade on the form, but I really don't like to spend money to get no product. If I were to submit a PCGS graded MS65FBL with 1 1/2 FBLs , without a minimum grade, could NGC possibly send it back to me MS65 or lower?

In regards to your statement about NGC not necessarity agreeing with the PCGS grades, I agree with that being accurate. I sent in several PCI Garrison Collection Error coins to NGC because the designations needed to be updated accordingly. I was not disapointed but I wasn't overjoyed and some coins were way below my expectations.

 

Seeing as most of my Franklins in my Registry Set are PCGS, I am glad that NGC applies equal points

 

Happy Thanksgiving by the way everyone!

-Dave

[Kurtdog]

So. NGC doesn't necessarily agree with the PCGS grades in the registry sets, and that's how that dilemma is reconciled. You see, I thought they did agree with them.

 

I know what you said is in reference to the NGC registry sets, but what about submissions?

Dave, it's like I said, NGC's reputation is on the line when it slabs a coin and slaps a grade on it, and it's not on the line, as such, for the PCGS-graded coins it allows in its registry. Never underestimate that the most important thing to these TPGs is their reputations. Their slabs are their trademarks on those coins, and that's why they have to grade the coins, independently, pursuant to their own quality standards, before the coins go into their slabs. It's really just as simple as that.

[coinman1794]

So. NGC doesn't necessarily agree with the PCGS grades in the registry sets, and that's how that dilemma is reconciled. You see, I thought they did agree with them.

 

I know what you said is in reference to the NGC registry sets, but what about submissions?

Dave, it's like I said, NGC's reputation is on the line when it slabs a coin and slaps a grade on it, and it's not on the line, as such, for the PCGS-graded coins it allows in its registry. Never underestimate that the most important thing to these TPGs is their reputations. Their slabs are their trademarks on those coins, and that's why they have to grade the coins, independently, pursuant to their own quality standards, before the coins go into their slabs. It's really just as simple as that.

 

The financial obligations persuant to their guarrantee are also a real factor