1787 Fugio cent

[coinsandmedals]

http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u518/coinsandmedals/fugioobv.jpg

http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u518/coinsandmedals/Fugiorev.jpg

 

I know the variety is a 1787 4 cinq “states united” I have already sent this coin off to NGC but I just wanted to hear the different opinions on this particular coin. I know the pictures are not very clear but I took them before I sent the coin off. Do you guys think it’s genuine, what do you think of the color and what about the grade? I’m new to colonial coins so I know very little about this coin, if you think its genuine/non-genuine please include why you think this. Any information would be greatly appreciated; I’m just simply trying to enhance my knowledge of this particular coin. This may not be the right place for this but I'm not too interested in the grade mainly just if its genuine or not and why. Thanks in advance.

Don.

 

 

[RWB]

I recommend you buy Eric Newman's book on Fugios.

[michael]

an extremely odd fugio cent unlike any i have ever seen as the 2 cinqfoils on the reverse above and below the motto WE ARE ONE

 

ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT ON THIS FUGIO THAN I HAVE EVER SEEN

 

also there are elements on the obverse that seem out of place

 

 

 

 

maybe it is the photos or the way the coin is angled or i dont get out much with fugios

 

and maybe it is because it is 1am in the morning and i am losing my mind

 

very strange fugio cent

 

genuine?? i dont think so OR this is a coin i would pass on either way

[picklepuss-migration]

beautiful coin. Good luck with your search

[messydesk]

My gut reaction is that it's bad. I can't put my finger on what makes it bad, but it just has that bad "look" to it. I've looked at a good bunch of Fugios, and I own one (everyone should ), and they never have that "look" to them.

[Conder101]

I agree it looks "off" but I have nothing I can put my finger on as to why. For your sake I hope I am wrong. OK start trying to attribute and the why starts showing up.

 

Obv looks most like 11 which comes with rev's A, B, and X. This rev doesn't match any of those three. Problem is it doesn't completely match obv 11

 

Rev does not match anything I have images of. I don't have images of rev JJ,LL or OO. JJ comes paired with obv 13, LL with obv 12, and OO with Obv 10. The obv of the OP coin is definitely not 10,12,or 13.

 

As Michael said the star/cinqfoils do not seem to match those on anything I have images of, AND the upper one is above the upright of the E in WE. There is not a single STATES UNITED reverse that has the star above the E in WE. If it turns out this piece is genuine it is also a new variety with both a new obv AND new rev. That is probably to much to hope for.

[michael]

thank you conder!!!

 

it could be a new unique variety i hope so

 

but now it is morning and with some sleepy time and my mind is a little more clear

 

 

my first thought when i glanced at this coin even before i looked at it a little more carefully in the photos

 

WAS THE SURFACE QUALITY

 

iN that one thing the chinese copies of early copper from the "shanghai mint" have mostly common is that they appear to have (at least to my minds eye) a particular surface quality you see right off the bat (well at least i do) which raises my suspecions and makes me go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

and this coin has those first glance surface qualities of the "mint in shanghai"

 

hopefully

the makers will **NOT** read this thread and attempt a second time to correct their errors in their next batch

 

 

NOW AGAIN i am no expert on coin authenticity and it is only my novice opinion

 

and i hope that the owner/submitter gets a good result and the coin turns out not only to be a genuine example but a new rare variety to boot

 

and then i will stand corrected

 

 

 

[BillJones]

I have never seen a sun face like that on a Fugio cent. The expression on it is really weird. It sets off some alarm bells with me, because it looks a bit like the character from the "Scream" image motif. The coin is also extremely well made for one of these coins. Usually there is some weakness or some uneven striking somewhere.

 

The color is also odd, although I once owned a genuine Fugio cent that had this look. A veteran dealer told that the piece had been treated with sulfur in less than a professional manner.

 

You might get Newman's book, but it is expensive. I paid $125 for mine. In a way it's worth it, but since, I confess, I have a few more resources than most collectors, I could afford it. There is also a book by Alan Kessler that is pretty good, but the last time I checked that one has become an expensive collectors' item too.

 

Here are photos of the two Fugios I have. First a Club Rays piece, Newman 4-E.

 

 

And a pointed rays piece, a Newman 8-X, which one of the common Bank of New York hoard varieites.

 

[coinsandmedals]

Thank you all for the information it really helps, I did get the coin back and it came back in a “body bag”. I did notice the stars on the reverse which raised some questions on my behalf, but I have learned my lesson and I think from now on any of the colonial coins that I will be purchasing will already be certified. I had originally noted the color as being a little odd, but I have seen a number of early large cents that are genuine with similar color. That is a very nice pair of coins that you have there Mr. Bill Jones maybe one day I will have the real thing in similar grade, until then I suppose this coin will just have to reside in the back of Large cent dansco album alongside my hard times tokens. Once again than you all very much!

[tenacious]

Don, if you don't mind where did you get it? eBay or ?

 

Just curious. But knowing where it came from could be helpful to other collectors.

 

Sorry it turned out how it did. I hope you find a genuine one. As messydesk said, everyone should own one. I took some time and found one I am really happy with.

[coinsandmedals]

I bought this coin from elderly gentlemen at my local flea market, and I know what you are going to think well of course its fake it came from a flea market. I have been purchasing coins from this man for over five years and I have obtained very nice examples of some really high end coins. Since then I have been sending them through a dealer to NGC, this was before I joined for myself. I have picked up 1916 D mercury dimes that graded out F-VF from this guy as well as a nice assortment of semi-key date barber coins that graded in the mid AU’s. I didn’t pay much for the coin; he has old coding on most of his coins, and whatever the price is that is what he sells it for because he knows that he’s making a profit in comparison to when he bought it. This is the first coin that I have purchased from him that turned out to be bad, but I don’t think that he honestly knew it was because he would have told me. I usually don’t buy really good coins from anywhere other than reputable dealers, and really high end coins I don’t purchase unless they are in an NGC or PCGS holder, unless I trust the guy like I do this older gentlemen. Once again thanks for the posts, the information was very helpful!