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I now own 10 1933 Double Eagles and so do you.

Started by JIM F.,

27 posts in this topic

tenacious

tenacious

Posted
Posted

Whether Swift got them over the counter, which I speculate my very well be true, or illegally, there is another aspect which is more poignant to me.

 

The government wasted a lot of time, and what I rightfully assume was a lot of money, pursuing this.

 

Really? With the current state of things was it that important? Was it really at the top of the list? And what did "we the people" get out of this? The gold value of 10 Double Eagles. Whoopie! Which I'm sure was just a very very small fraction of the money spent on pursuing this.

 

Another example of the government not getting priorities straight. I guess we should be used to it by now.

 

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PerryHall

PerryHall

Posted
Posted
Whether Swift got them over the counter, which I speculate my very well be true, or illegally, there is another aspect which is more poignant to me.

 

The government wasted a lot of time, and what I rightfully assume was a lot of money, pursuing this.

 

Really? With the current state of things was it that important? Was it really at the top of the list? And what did "we the people" get out of this? The gold value of 10 Double Eagles. Whoopie! Which I'm sure was just a very very small fraction of the money spent on pursuing this.

 

Another example of the government not getting priorities straight. I guess we should be used to it by now.

 

I guess they were afraid of setting a precedent if they didn't go after what they considered to be stolen government property. Also, those government lawyers are paid a yearly salary whether they are trying a case in court or sitting around the office.

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BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted

We don't own squat.

 

Some people like to use the term "commonwealth." I'd say we are headed toward "commonpoverty" ruled over by an ever growing cancer called the Federal Government Bureaucracy which listens to no one, is accountable to no one and makes its own laws.

 

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Crohnos01

Crohnos01

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Posted

So my question is: Now what?.... (I am not going to comment on the government waste aspect of this story for two reasons; my blood pressure and the fact that I work with the government every day and see way too much of this already.)

 

What happens to the DE's? I have this sinking feeling they will get melted...

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Raisethis2

Raisethis2

Posted
Posted

I kinda take a different view. The 10 1933 Double Eagles came into the hands of an unauthorized party who had connections. I'd bet the coins were sold by a Director or someone pretty high up at that facility to get out, but no one will ever know. In any event, they were never suppose to be found in circulation. That's how the government won the case.

 

What disposition awaits is unclear. What is known is that the coins are the rightful property of The United States. I'd like to think that they would be auctioned off to the highest bidder since they will command a great premium. Any dilution of value of the other one or two not destroyed is immaterial.

 

This might well be a case of win/win for a change.

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newprepper

newprepper

Posted
Posted
So my question is: Now what?.... (I am not going to comment on the government waste aspect of this story for two reasons; my blood pressure and the fact that I work with the government every day and see way too much of this already.)

 

What happens to the DE's? I have this sinking feeling they will get melted...

 

They will go into storage like the end of raiders of the lost ark

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
I kinda take a different view. The 10 1933 Double Eagles came into the hands of an unauthorized party who had connections. I'd bet the coins were sold by a Director or someone pretty high up at that facility to get out, but no one will ever know. In any event, they were never suppose to be found in circulation. That's how the government won the case.

 

What disposition awaits is unclear. What is known is that the coins are the rightful property of The United States. I'd like to think that they would be auctioned off to the highest bidder since they will command a great premium. Any dilution of value of the other one or two not destroyed is immaterial.

 

This might well be a case of win/win for a change.

 

It is as or more likely that the coins were traded for other $20 gold pieces, rather than obtained through purchase. Remember, supposedly the count of $20 pieces (which were treated the same, regardless of date) was correct - none were missing.

 

The government didn't necessarily win because the coins weren't supposed to be "found in circulation".

 

I believe that the government has stated that the coins wont be melted. But at the same time, I will be surprised if they are auctioned off.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
I was not pleased with the original ruling or that of the appeal. No winners, only losers. MJ

 

I don't know why. It seems as if that would make yours more valuable ;)

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MJ

MJ

Posted
Posted
I was not pleased with the original ruling or that of the appeal. No winners, only losers. MJ

 

I don't know why. It seems as if that would make yours more valuable ;)

 

Bigmouth

 

MJ

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
I was not pleased with the original ruling or that of the appeal. No winners, only losers. MJ

 

I don't know why. It seems as if that would make yours more valuable ;)

 

Bigmouth

 

MJ

 

:devil:

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MJ

MJ

Posted
Posted
I was not pleased with the original ruling or that of the appeal. No winners, only losers. MJ

 

I don't know why. It seems as if that would make yours more valuable ;)

 

Bigmouth

 

MJ

 

:devil:

 

How long until the knock at my door?

 

MJ

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PerryHall

PerryHall

Posted
Posted

Didn't the 1933 Saint that was sold at auction come with a document from the U.S. government certifying that this will be the only 1933 Saint that will have legal tender status and will be the only one that will be allowed in private hands? If the government sells those 10 other 1933 Saints, I would think the guy that bought the only legal to own 1933 Saint would have the basis for a lawsuit against the government unless they were able to negotiate some compensation since the value of his coin would be severely diminished if those other coins were sold.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Didn't the 1933 Saint that was sold at auction come with a document from the U.S. government certifying that this will be the only 1933 Saint that will have legal tender status and will be the only one that will be allowed in private hands? If the government sells those 10 other 1933 Saints, I would think the guy that bought the only legal to own 1933 Saint would have the basis for a lawsuit against the government unless they were able to negotiate some compensation since the value of his coin would be severely diminished if those other coins were sold.

 

From what I recall, the language used was ambiguous, though a number of people had the same impression that you do. I had thought that if other examples became legal to own, the buyer of the (alleged) Farouk coin would be part of a settlement with the government and owner(s) of the other coins.

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Mr.Mcknowitall

Mr.Mcknowitall

Posted
Posted
Didn't the 1933 Saint that was sold at auction come with a document from the U.S. government certifying that this will be the only 1933 Saint that will have legal tender status and will be the only one that will be allowed in private hands? If the government sells those 10 other 1933 Saints, I would think the guy that bought the only legal to own 1933 Saint would have the basis for a lawsuit against the government unless they were able to negotiate some compensation since the value of his coin would be severely diminished if those other coins were sold.

 

From what I recall, the language used was ambiguous, though a number of people had the same impression that you do. I had thought that if other examples became legal to own, the buyerof the Farouk coin would be part of a settlement with the government and owner(s) of the other coins.

 

Intentional ambiguity to account for the expected possibility of a future Global Settlement, since all had not been accounted for. The language is far superior in its' usage than the U.S. Constitution, not to mention a new car sales Contract.

 

 

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BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted
Didn't the 1933 Saint that was sold at auction come with a document from the U.S. government certifying that this will be the only 1933 Saint that will have legal tender status and will be the only one that will be allowed in private hands? If the government sells those 10 other 1933 Saints, I would think the guy that bought the only legal to own 1933 Saint would have the basis for a lawsuit against the government unless they were able to negotiate some compensation since the value of his coin would be severely diminished if those other coins were sold.

 

I tend to agree with the conspiracy theorists who think that the government bought that coin to take it out of numismatic circulation. It has not been seen since it was sold, and one must remember that the government could buy it for half price because of the way the auction funds were distributed. Besides the government does not care about money anyway. They don't even have to print it anymore; they just make a computer entry to create it.

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Mr.Mcknowitall

Mr.Mcknowitall

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Why would such an action be a conspiracy?

What is half price, if the future end price is not known?

Is it possible that the attorneys involved may have been thinking about future equity (fairness) in a Global Settlement, and to avoid doing it again, and again, and again....

 

It may have been to the benefit of the numismatic community, not its detriment.

Distribution of funds does not translate to a half price expenditure.

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BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted
Why would such an action be a conspiracy?

What is half price, if the future end price is not known?

Is it possible that the attorneys involved may have been thinking about future equity (fairness) in a Global Settlement, and to avoid doing it again, and again, and again....

 

It may have been to the benefit of the numismatic community, not its detriment.

Distribution of funds does not translate to a half price expenditure.

 

It seems like you missed my point. When the 1933 $20 gold was auctioned the government and the "owner" split the proceeds 50-50. Therefore the government could have bid it in and paid half of what any other bidder paid because half of the money came back to the Feds.

 

As for future sales the coin will be free of any government interference aside from income taxes. That 1933 double eagle is the only piece bearing that date has been monetized (the government was paid and extra $20 to liberate it.), and it is a legal to own as a 1927, '28 or any other common date.

 

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