Intriguing error (Morgan Dollars)

[Kurtdog]

I'm wondering if any of you can help me describe this error consisting not only of these triangles but of the lines referenced by the red arrows. If you'll notice those lines are roughly of the same length and orientation and in the same place on the coins. Both the triangles and the lines are raised. These coins are from two different mints, and were minted nine years apart. I don't think the errors are clashes as I've seen the reverse overlays and nothing lines up. That's about all I can tell you, really. I'd bet money some of you have seen this error, though. Thanks.

[jerseycat10]

They don't look identical.

 

Maybe they are both die cracks in the same approximate place?

[kryptonitecomics]

Looks clearly like a die clash with the reverse leaves on the top of the wreath? Very common....

 

 

Here is an overlay I found online....

 

 

If the dies are rotated even a degree or two it put the top of the wreath right on top of the back of Morgan's head......and as we know...most morgans have at least a percent or two of rotations between the obverse and reverse dies as they start to move a bit once the press starts striking coins even if they are ligned up perfectly at the start..

[BROADSTRUCK]

Definitely looks like both have been struck by clashed dies.

[C.I.]

Shanes overlay shows a good visual of the clash. I think most would call this a die cap break or clash. Here is a good example which shows this clash on a larger scale. Somewhat common with CC's but have seen on others as well.. On one fo my 82CC Vam 3D's.

 

Chet

 

[TomB]

It's a die clash from part of the wreath on the reverse.

[PerryHall]

Definitely a die clash. Is this a known VAM variety? If not, it would be a discovery coin which would be very cool.

[cpm9ball]

Definitely a die clash. Is this a known VAM variety? If not, it would be a discovery coin which would be very cool.

 

This is a common clash, and to my knowledge, VAM's are not awarded based on a common clash. It would be different if it were a letter transfer.

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

FWIW, this handy little tool was designed by Terry Forfa and is great for checking die clashes and rotation errors on Morgan dollars.

 

Chris

[jgrinz]

FWIW, this handy little tool was designed by Terry Forfa and is great for checking die clashes and rotation errors on Morgan dollars.

 

Chris

 

Now that is cool

[Kurtdog]

Shanes overlay shows a good visual of the clash. I think most would call this a die cap break or clash. Here is a good example which shows this clash on a larger scale. Somewhat common with CC's but have seen on others as well.. On one fo my 82CC Vam 3D's.

 

Chet

Chet, what do you make of that line coming off the top triangle? In my pictures, it's referenced by the red arrows. I’d think it can't be overlooked, as it's apparently on all of these. It's always coming off the upper-most triangle. Mine, BTW, are a '99-O and '80.

 

[messydesk]

The two coins simply show clash marks from the inside edge of the wreath. While both are strong, they don't count as something to be listed as a separate VAM entry. If, however, part of the IGWT motto transferred from the back to the front, it will be listed. Look in front of Liberty's neck for a diagonal line (clash from edge of eagle's wing). Below that line, there may be additional clash marks, however faint, from the word "In". Looking at the reverse to see if there's a vertical line (clash from neck) through "In" will hint at there being a letter transfer. Also, look behind Liberty's head in the lower vee formed by two curls of hair meeting above the first right star (or radially inward from the second) for transfer of the letters "st" from "trust". The pictures of the 1880 VAM 32A show both of these transfers quite well, as this is a very strong clash.

[cpm9ball]

Shanes overlay shows a good visual of the clash. I think most would call this a die cap break or clash. Here is a good example which shows this clash on a larger scale. Somewhat common with CC's but have seen on others as well.. On one fo my 82CC Vam 3D's.

 

Chet

Chet, what do you make of that line coming off the top triangle? In my pictures, it's referenced by the red arrows. I’d think it can't be overlooked, as it's apparently on all of these. It's always coming off the upper-most triangle. Mine, BTW, are a '99-O and '80.

 

That line is the leaf, and those are not triangles. They are the points of the leaves.

 

Chris

[newprepper]

That plastic thingy is cool

[Kurtdog]

The two coins simply show clash marks from the inside edge of the wreath. While both are strong, they don't count as something to be listed as a separate VAM entry. If, however, part of the IGWT motto transferred from the back to the front, it will be listed. Look in front of Liberty's neck for a diagonal line (clash from edge of eagle's wing). Below that line, there may be additional clash marks, however faint, from the word "In". Looking at the reverse to see if there's a vertical line (clash from neck) through "In" will hint at there being a letter transfer. Also, look behind Liberty's head in the lower vee formed by two curls of hair meeting above the first right star (or radially inward from the second) for transfer of the letters "st" from "trust". The pictures of the 1880 VAM 32A show both of these transfers quite well, as this is a very strong clash.

OK, I guess I didn't know very much about these at all. Mucho thanks for this, John. And, everyone. I really appreciate this.

[newprepper]

The two coins simply show clash marks from the inside edge of the wreath. While both are strong, they don't count as something to be listed as a separate VAM entry. If, however, part of the IGWT motto transferred from the back to the front, it will be listed. Look in front of Liberty's neck for a diagonal line (clash from edge of eagle's wing). Below that line, there may be additional clash marks, however faint, from the word "In". Looking at the reverse to see if there's a vertical line (clash from neck) through "In" will hint at there being a letter transfer. Also, look behind Liberty's head in the lower vee formed by two curls of hair meeting above the first right star (or radially inward from the second) for transfer of the letters "st" from "trust". The pictures of the 1880 VAM 32A show both of these transfers quite well, as this is a very strong clash.

OK, I guess I didn't know very much about these at all. Mucho thanks for this, John. And, everyone. I really appreciate this.

 

I think its pretty cool. Thats something you found, and didn't have to buy. Think of the collectors who look to buy those VAM's. You found one. I like it