Dominion Grading question

[JIM F.]

Do coins in these slabs command any premiums? I have one and would appreciate advice as to whether or not to crack it out for a type album. This is the coin, it has a very nice appearance.

 

 

 

 

Thank You.

 

 

[123cents]

DGS was only in business for about 2 years so their slabs could command a premium someday.

[coinman_23885]

I don't envision the slabs carrying the premium, and even if they did, I don't think the holder is going to increase the saleability of the coin. I would crack this one out in a heartbeat if you are looking to fill a hole in an album.

[Keigwin]

No. I can't imagine they ever will but stranger things have happened.

Lance.

[messydesk]

If you want it in an album, put it in an album. It may tone a little and make the cleaning less obvious. Besides, do you collect coins or plastic?

[Kurtdog]

I'd get it out of there. Besides, "Lightly Cleaned" is ambiguous at best, hurtful at worst. No wonder they went out of business. That's no way to grade. What's that supposed to mean, it's lightly market acceptable?

[dimefreak]

I'd get it out of there. Besides, "Lightly Cleaned" is ambiguous at best, hurtful at worst. No wonder they went out of business. That's no way to grade. What's that supposed to mean, it's lightly market acceptable?

 

Id be willing to bet that coin would grade at both NGC and PCGS. DGS sandbagged on there grades quite often and I am sure thats why DGS is no longer around. Very strict grades, but no real market. Basically it made more sense to send to PCGS and NGC and get a higher grade.

[coinman_23885]

I'd get it out of there. Besides, "Lightly Cleaned" is ambiguous at best, hurtful at worst. No wonder they went out of business. That's no way to grade. What's that supposed to mean, it's lightly market acceptable?

 

How is this any more detrimental than a details (or genuine) grade from NGC or PCGS? At least there is a number grade.

[coinman_23885]

Id be willing to bet that coin would grade at both NGC and PCGS.

 

I wouldn't put money on it.

[Kurtdog]

How is this any more detrimental than a details (or genuine) grade from NGC or PCGS? At least there is a number grade.

"Cleaned" would equate to "Details." "Lightly Cleaned" would equate to "Lightly Details," which is just as meaningless.

[dimefreak]

How is this any more detrimental than a details (or genuine) grade from NGC or PCGS? At least there is a number grade.

"Cleaned" would equate to "Details." "Lightly Cleaned" would equate to "Lightly Details," which is just as meaningless.

 

I think it was more helpful than "cleaned". Sometimes they would write stuff like "Cleaned and retoned". I think that benefits an internet buyer. JMO

 

[Kurtdog]

I think it was more helpful than "cleaned". Sometimes they would write stuff like "Cleaned and retoned". I think that benefits an internet buyer. JMO

I understand. But to me lightly cleaned is about as meaningful as slightly pregnant.

[JIM F.]

Well, I think I may lightly crack it out.

 

[jerseycat10]

I'd get it out of there. Besides, "Lightly Cleaned" is ambiguous at best, hurtful at worst. No wonder they went out of business. That's no way to grade. What's that supposed to mean, it's lightly market acceptable?

 

How is this any more detrimental than a details (or genuine) grade from NGC or PCGS? At least there is a number grade.

 

Because DGS attributed many coins as having been cleaned that would have graded at the other services with no problem.

[dimefreak]

I'd get it out of there. Besides, "Lightly Cleaned" is ambiguous at best, hurtful at worst. No wonder they went out of business. That's no way to grade. What's that supposed to mean, it's lightly market acceptable?

 

How is this any more detrimental than a details (or genuine) grade from NGC or PCGS? At least there is a number grade.

 

Because DGS attributed many coins as having been cleaned that would have graded at the other services with no problem.

 

Exactly! I imagine they saw all the people on the forums talking about third world graders over grading coins. So they tried to offer the tough standards everybody was crying for. All of a sudden people didnt want that either.

[messydesk]

Because DGS attributed many coins as having been cleaned that would have graded at the other services with no problem.

I remember hearing the same sort of complaint about SEGS long ago. "They put comments on everything. I can sell it that way." This was before PCGS and NGC holdered problem coins, and back when ANACS put net grades on holders.

[Kurtdog]

I'd get it out of there. Besides, "Lightly Cleaned" is ambiguous at best, hurtful at worst. No wonder they went out of business. That's no way to grade. What's that supposed to mean, it's lightly market acceptable?

 

How is this any more detrimental than a details (or genuine) grade from NGC or PCGS? At least there is a number grade.

 

Because DGS attributed many coins as having been cleaned that would have graded at the other services with no problem.

 

Exactly! I imagine they saw all the people on the forums talking about third world graders over grading coins. So they tried to offer the tough standards everybody was crying for. All of a sudden people didnt want that either.

Tell you what he ought to do. He ought to leave it in the slab and submit it to CAC. If it comes back with a light green bean on it, then we know we're in trouble.

[L1ncolnF4n]

DGS IS a garage grader in terms of quality from what I've seen. The plastic isn't worth anything.

[Elbesaar]

 

Jim,

 

Leave it in its plastic until you speak with me.

 

Thanks, Mike

[lehigh96]

DGS IS a garage grader in terms of quality from what I've seen. The plastic isn't worth anything.

 

DGS was owned by David Lawrence Rare Coins. While selling and grading coins at the same time presents a credibility problem, calling DGS a garage/basement slabber is way off base IMO. I haven't seen too many DGS coins, but I never saw one that I thought was grossly overgraded.

 

PS. I didn't like the holder when PCI used it and I didn't like it any better under DGS.

[jom]

Exactly! I imagine they saw all the people on the forums talking about third world graders over grading coins. So they tried to offer the tough standards everybody was crying for. All of a sudden people didnt want that either.

 

That's kind of what happened to Hallmark. They were tough and dealers didn't like MS65 coins in MS64 holders.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: it isn't whether a grading services is "strict" in terms of grade it is whether they are CONSISTENT with those grades.

 

Because DGS attributed many coins as having been cleaned that would have graded at the other services with no problem.

I remember hearing the same sort of complaint about SEGS long ago. "They put comments on everything. I can sell it that way." This was before PCGS and NGC holdered problem coins, and back when ANACS put net grades on holders.

 

I wonder what this says about buyers/collectors? Would they rather buy without knowing the problems? Sweep it under the rug!

 

jom

[L1ncolnF4n]

DGS IS a garage grader in terms of quality from what I've seen. The plastic isn't worth anything.

 

DGS was owned by David Lawrence Rare Coins. While selling and grading coins at the same time presents a credibility problem, calling DGS a garage/basement slabber is way off base IMO. I haven't seen too many DGS coins, but I never saw one that I thought was grossly overgraded.

 

PS. I didn't like the holder when PCI used it and I didn't like it any better under DGS.

 

Not trying to start a fire here, but think about what you just said. You have inferred that any big name dealer could start their own grading company and it wouldn't be a garage grader? The reason that PCGS and NGC work is that they don't actively buy and sell their own slabs. When someone is actively buying and selling coins they've assigned grades to, they have to be taken with a grain of salt.

[Hard Times]

DGS IS a garage grader in terms of quality from what I've seen. The plastic isn't worth anything.

 

DGS was owned by David Lawrence Rare Coins. While selling and grading coins at the same time presents a credibility problem, calling DGS a garage/basement slabber is way off base IMO. I haven't seen too many DGS coins, but I never saw one that I thought was grossly overgraded.

 

PS. I didn't like the holder when PCI used it and I didn't like it any better under DGS.

 

Not trying to start a fire here, but think about what you just said. You have inferred that any big name dealer could start their own grading company and it wouldn't be a garage grader? The reason that PCGS and NGC work is that they don't actively buy and sell their own slabs. When someone is actively buying and selling coins they've assigned grades to, they have to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

I was under the impression that David Hall actively buys and sells PCGS slabbed coins - doesn't this count? He is after all, the President of Collectors Universe, the parent company of PCGS(?)

 

David Hall Rare Coins

 

Best, HT

[L1ncolnF4n]

DGS IS a garage grader in terms of quality from what I've seen. The plastic isn't worth anything.

 

DGS was owned by David Lawrence Rare Coins. While selling and grading coins at the same time presents a credibility problem, calling DGS a garage/basement slabber is way off base IMO. I haven't seen too many DGS coins, but I never saw one that I thought was grossly overgraded.

 

PS. I didn't like the holder when PCI used it and I didn't like it any better under DGS.

 

Not trying to start a fire here, but think about what you just said. You have inferred that any big name dealer could start their own grading company and it wouldn't be a garage grader? The reason that PCGS and NGC work is that they don't actively buy and sell their own slabs. When someone is actively buying and selling coins they've assigned grades to, they have to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

I was under the impression that David Hall actively buys and sells PCGS slabbed coins - doesn't this count? He is after all, the President of Collectors Universe, the parent company of PCGS(?)

 

David Hall Rare Coins

 

Best, HT

 

He's not in the grading room all day though actually assigning the grades.

[Hard Times]

Not sure that matters, he buys PCGS coins and he is President. I can't imagine that when he submits very very rare gold coins, which he has done and then sold recently, that given the rarity and uniqueness of each specimen, that the graders do not know who submitted them.......

 

Er, ah, why weren't these submitted to NGC instead, just a wonderin'

 

David Hall sells Liberty Collection.....

[Hard Times]

And if David Hall does not like the grades he got? How do you know the grader(s) did not get a 'talkin'' to? Huge conflict of interest to have the President of PCGS buying, selling, and submitting coins to PCGS to grade and is exactly what you said PCGS is not doing Lincoln.

[L1ncolnF4n]

And if David Hall does not like the grades he got? How do you know the grader(s) did not get a 'talkin'' to? Huge conflict of interest to have the President of PCGS buying, selling, and submitting coins to PCGS to grade and is exactly what you said PCGS is not doing Lincoln.

 

That's the inherent problem here. Of course he'll be involved with ultra-rarities and super high dollar coins, but there certainly is a conflict of interest. Though the fact is, that CAC has had great success because of this conflict of interest.

 

As I said, I didn't want to start an argument, so I'll rest my case. I suppose I'll just go buy some slabs now...

[JIM F.]

Jim,

 

Leave it in its plastic until you speak with me.

 

Thanks, Mike

 

OK. PM me on your thoughts.

 

Thank You.

 

[jom]

And if David Hall does not like the grades he got? How do you know the grader(s) did not get a 'talkin'' to? Huge conflict of interest to have the President of PCGS buying, selling, and submitting coins to PCGS to grade and is exactly what you said PCGS is not doing Lincoln.

 

I going to have to agree with your scenario. I find that most if not all sellers grade their own material and price them accordingly (actually the pricing of the coins IS grading).

 

Sure the Big Two are "third party" but how much of it that goes on behind the scenes that is really only "two party" isn't really known.

 

I don't see how it's a bad thing that DLRC slabs their own stuff. Who cares really? Buy the coin not the holder. Simple.

 

jom

[bochiman]

For some strange reason, I don't think there is a "conflict of interest" with David Hall and PCGS. It is certainly the conspiracy theorist type of thing to do, but it has been jawed about so much that I am sure steps have been taken for awhile now.

 

As to why his collection wasn't in NGC holders...ummm...gee.....really? You really have to ask that? It isn't so much that he influenced the grades but it would send a message against his own company, don't you think? You may not like PCGS or David Hall, but he certainly isn't stupid.

 

As for the DGS holders.....they graded strict and tough, from the few I have seen. I have a DGS 1885-O MS63PL morgan that I would say is at least a MS63PL if not MS64PL. I've played with the idea of crossing it, keeping it as it is the only DGS currently in the collection, or selling it, as I already have 1885-O for our example and don't need this one.

Maybe I'll sell it as I am not a slab collector, but I wouldn't call it overgraded by any means. Nor is it in a problem holder.