ICG vs NCG MS 67

[benjmurts]

On ebay I keep seeing these 2005 P Bison Nickel (ICG MS 67 First day issue) for $5-$10. On the NGC price guide in MS 66 its at $103. I see ICG listed as a good grading company some places. Is ICG a good grading company ? OR is it the first day of issue.

Please explain

Thanks

[MarkFeld]

ICG Is not as highly regarded as either NGC or PCGS.

 

Additionally, price guides are often inaccurate. Have you checked to see what NGC examples have been selling for?

[benjmurts]

ICG Is not as highly regarded as either NGC or PCGS.

 

Additionally, price guides are often inaccurate. Have you checked to see what NGC examples have been selling for?

 

The last one I saw listed non SMS went for $98

[TheMightyDuke]

ICG is about a 2 point difference in grading, on most coins, especially graded so high. I had an ICG MS67 Washington Quarter....sent it ATS, though....thought it would go MS66. It came back in it's ICG MS67 holder.....the best they thought it was an MS65, and I'll never know if they thought it was lower, and not wasting any $$ trying it again. I'll just crack it out and Dansco it, maybe inthe future it'll develop some toning. Anything post 1932 to 65 is overgraded by a point at least...post '65, 2 points...

 

ICG=Imaginative Coin Grading

[benjmurts]

ICG is about a 2 point difference in grading, on most coins, especially graded so high. I had an ICG MS67 Washington Quarter....sent it ATS, though....thought it would go MS66. It came back in it's ICG MS67 holder.....the best they thought it was an MS65, and I'll never know if they thought it was lower, and not wasting any $$ trying it again. I'll just crack it out and Dansco it, maybe inthe future it'll develop some toning. Anything post 1932 to 65 is overgraded by a point at least...post '65, 2 points...

 

ICG=Imaginative Coin Grading

 

thanks that answers a lot

[MarkFeld]

ICG is about a 2 point difference in grading, on most coins, especially graded so high. I had an ICG MS67 Washington Quarter....sent it ATS, though....thought it would go MS66. It came back in it's ICG MS67 holder.....the best they thought it was an MS65, and I'll never know if they thought it was lower, and not wasting any $$ trying it again. I'll just crack it out and Dansco it, maybe inthe future it'll develop some toning. Anything post 1932 to 65 is overgraded by a point at least...post '65, 2 points...

 

ICG=Imaginative Coin Grading

 

thanks that answers a lot

 

Unfortunately, it was a gross exaggeration. To state that "Anything post 1932 to 65 is overgraded by a point at least...post '65, 2 points." is far too much of a generalization, and highly inaccurate.

[FishyOne]

I crossed an 1855-O SLH that was in an ICG MS64 holder to PCGS as a MS63. It then when to CAC for a green bean. I think ICG was 1/2 point high at most. This was a Great Collections buy.

 

I've owned other ICG coins that were accurately graded. They are not basement slabbers.

 

Before and after photos.

 

[mkman123]

I stick with NGC, PCGS and occasionally ANACs as coins are graded more accurately than ICG, ACG, etc.

 

[rockhobby]

I agree with the above except I keep my eyes open for nice SEGS Jefferson Nickels as they seem for the most part to accurately grade this series.

[coinman_23885]

I think that it is imperative that you buy the coin and not the holder.

 

With this said, I am going to disagree with what many posters have said. In many ways, I think ICG was a decent company when it started grading coins. The older coins (those with a barcode on the front label) tend to be consistently graded from my experience, and they were tough on classic gold, usually one point high on most other classics, and grading appears all of the place on the ultra modern coins.

 

With regards to the newer ICG certified coins (those typically without the bar code of the obverse), I have found these to be quite variable. Some of them are accurate, others overgraded by a point or more, and I have seen problem coins that are not, at least in my opinion, properly described.

 

All in all, these are just my observations and others' observations may differ. I think the key is learning to grade for yourself and making the determination on a case by case basis. In fact, this is the approach that I use with all grading services including PCGS and NGC (and ANACS). Don't become fixated on labels which may or not be accurate.

[coinman_23885]

ICG is about a 2 point difference in grading, on most coins, especially graded so high. I had an ICG MS67 Washington Quarter....sent it ATS, though....thought it would go MS66. It came back in it's ICG MS67 holder.....the best they thought it was an MS65, and I'll never know if they thought it was lower, and not wasting any $$ trying it again. I'll just crack it out and Dansco it, maybe inthe future it'll develop some toning. Anything post 1932 to 65 is overgraded by a point at least...post '65, 2 points...

 

ICG=Imaginative Coin Grading

 

I don't think that it is fair to base your assessment on an entire grading service by examining a single coin. Also, and this goes for any crossover, graders are going to be much, much more conservative when crossing a coin in another TPG's holder. There are practical reasons for this. First, if the company breaks open the holder and there is a problem, then they are on the hook; second, TPG slabs can make coins more difficult to access. Graders are going to err on the side of caution with these. This is also many of the reasons that I don't give much credibility to the "NGC to PCGS" and "PCGS to NGC" crossover statistics that are erroneously touted as being "definitive" on the relative strictness of each company's grading.

[TomB]

My thought on this subject is that when the grade gets higher than MS/PR65 or so, that the probability that ICG will agree with PCGS or NGC gets smaller.

[jom]

I purchased this coin in an ICG MS68FB holder. I had it regraded at PCGS and came back the SAME.

 

 

So much for sweeping generalizations.

 

jom

[leeg]

It's all about the coin. Know your series and a little something about grading.

 

 

 

PCGS 64 BN

[James_OldeTowne]

ICG is about a 2 point difference in grading, on most coins, especially graded so high. I had an ICG MS67 Washington Quarter....sent it ATS, though....thought it would go MS66. It came back in it's ICG MS67 holder.....the best they thought it was an MS65, and I'll never know if they thought it was lower, and not wasting any $$ trying it again. I'll just crack it out and Dansco it, maybe inthe future it'll develop some toning. Anything post 1932 to 65 is overgraded by a point at least...post '65, 2 points...

 

ICG=Imaginative Coin Grading

On high grade coins, even two points can be a stretch. About two years ago, a friend of mine tried to cross an ICG buffalo in 67, and it failed at both NGC and PCGS. He then tried to down-cross it to 65, and no dice. It finally ended up in an NGC 64 holder, reflecting a $1000 price drop (although he luckily didn't pay near full price when he bought it).

 

ICG grades can be and often are on target or within a grade increment on circulated coinage, and they are inconsistent enough to occasionally undergrade a coin, but this is in the Fine to MS-60 range. Above that, be very wary.

 

Incidentally, I do believe their authentication to be top-notch, which is a big plus, given their reasonable grading fees, so don't by any means automatically assume the company offers no value.

[jom]

Just remember than many correctly graded ICG coins will get broken out (like mine above) since they bring more money in PCGS or NGC holders. The coins that are left are the potentially overgraded material. That will reflect badly on the grading company because that is all that you will see and will further depreciated the value ICG graded coins.

 

No one will ever know, for example, my 39-D dime was graded correctly by ICG at one point...

 

jom

[MarkFeld]

Just remember than many correctly graded ICG coins will get broken out (like mine above) since they bring more money in PCGS or NGC holders. The coins that are left are the potentially overgraded material. That will reflect badly on the grading company because that is all that you will see and will further depreciated the value ICG graded coins.

 

No one will ever know, for example, my 39-D dime was graded correctly by ICG at one point...

 

jom

 

I take it that by "graded correctly" you meant that PCGS graded the coin the same way ICG did?

 

If PCGS had refused to cross it, would ICG have been wrong?

[yonico]

ICG is about a 2 point difference in grading, on most coins, especially graded so high. I had an ICG MS67 Washington Quarter....sent it ATS, though....thought it would go MS66. It came back in it's ICG MS67 holder.....the best they thought it was an MS65, and I'll never know if they thought it was lower, and not wasting any $$ trying it again. I'll just crack it out and Dansco it, maybe inthe future it'll develop some toning. Anything post 1932 to 65 is overgraded by a point at least...post '65, 2 points...

 

ICG=Imaginative Coin Grading

 

I don't think that it is fair to base your assessment on an entire grading service by examining a single coin. Also, and this goes for any crossover, graders are going to be much, much more conservative when crossing a coin in another TPG's holder. There are practical reasons for this. First, if the company breaks open the holder and there is a problem, then they are on the hook; second, TPG slabs can make coins more difficult to access. Graders are going to err on the side of caution with these. This is also many of the reasons that I don't give much credibility to the "NGC to PCGS" and "PCGS to NGC" crossover statistics that are erroneously touted as being "definitive" on the relative strictness of each company's grading.

 

NGC avoids most of these problems. Now, for crossing any non-PCGS slabbed coin, you have to send along a signed "consent to remove" form - which means they have your permission to crack the coin out of its holder BEFORE grading, and the graders get it as a RAW coin, never even knowing it was slabbed before.

I believe that when crossing pcgs coins to NGC holders, you get automatically the same grade and maybe just a review for a possible star designation.

 

[jom]

I take it that by "graded correctly" you meant that PCGS graded the coin the same way ICG did?

 

Bad wording and assumption on my part. I should have said "the same".

 

If PCGS had refused to cross it, would ICG have been wrong?

 

Obviously, it depends on the coin. However, the market says "yes" given the value differences you see overall (ie on average). In the example I gave it was about a 6X price difference from what I bought it at (ICG) and what I eventually sold it at (PCGS). Of course, that probably isn't the norm...

 

jom