AU-MS Overlap Grading

[Oldtrader3]

I am moving this topic over to this page to widen its exposure to a wider audience, We have talked at length about this issue for at least to (10) years during which I have been here on this board and there has been no grading system changes to correct what I consider a major weakness of the current grading system. Below is the posting that I had placed in "General Numismatics" for discussion, if there is any interest?

 

Maybe more than just a simple score change is what is needed to heal the continuing open issue with market grading and AU coins, particularly classic or gold coins where there may be no high graded MS population?

IMHO, maybe it is time that NGC came up with a better system than the present, full of holes AU62 system which they use to overlap graded AU coins into at least (3) MS grades?

 

The present system is not only confusing but it promulgates a lot of abuse and unfair pricing practices by many dealers who exploit this grading system and use it as a way to possibly overprice low grade MS coins by selling them as AU62 coins. Not that all dealers will do this certainly.

 

We all know that there is no equality between an AU 58 coin with a slight rub, which is graded MS61 and a MS61 graded dog (uncirculated) coin that will normally sell for much less than AU58 money and should rightfully so.

 

Why are we still using this antiquated, incomplete and unfair grading system which leads to many abuses and certainly causes confusion? Give me a reason, NGC, as to why we should keep using this flawed system? Don't tell me that the reason is because PCGS does. That is not a reason, it is an excuse! Why set your members up to be confused and abused? "Caveat Emptor" only goes so far and only protects specialists, than it becomes manipulation of the market for greed!

 

There is no earthly reason why this sytem can not be modified somehow to minimise this issue with collectors? Just a thought. There should be some way of slab differentiation between AU62 and MS62 on coins which are not the evaluated on the same grading basis?

 

[Coin Trader]

The problem of grading and pricing coins in the AU/MS 58-62 range is one that needs to be resolved industry wide.

 

In addition to the issues you have identified, other questions come to mind.

 

* What happens if one grading service changes stadards but not the other(s)?

 

* What to do about coins already holdered that will be bought & sold alongside newly graded coins?

 

* Should coins in the 58-62 range be given a separate 'grade' for eye appeal? Why not all grades?

 

* Do we use AU and MS exclusively, or create another term for 'rub' or 'cabinet friction'? Or 'dogs'?

 

* Or do we ignore wear and "market grade" 58-62 coins based on value in the market place only?

 

 

Look how long it took the PNG to come up with a definition for coin doctoring. This issue is arguably more complicated, and likely more difficult to resolve. With all of the above having been said, however, I do support the idea of a change in grading practices in the high AU-MS range.

[Oldtrader3]

My driving issue with the present system is the confusion created through overlap of two different systems of evaluating coins which in practice, have nothing to do with one another except sharing (3) grades (MS60-62). These two groups of coins are mutually exclusive of one another in the justification for why they are given the grades that that have been given and yet, they share the same grades.

 

One system is for coins that are MS and do not make the Market Grading base grade for collector coins which is MS63. In other words, they are worse than MS63.

 

The second system is for coins which are better than the current market graded thresehold of AU58. So they are better than AU58 but are not really MS coins.

 

How can anyone justify these two mutually exclusive coin groups as being designated as the same grades? All it does to enforce this system, is to create more confusion for most collectors and many dealers. Since they are mutually exclusive in grading philosophy, they can not be the same grade? Does that make sense? One group will always be AU and the other group will always be MS. They are not even the same monetarily.

[coinman1794]

The problem is that, once a coin leaves the dies, it is subjected to many different kinds of surface abrasion. Some forms can resemble circulation wear. An attempt at distinguishing the difference has to be made, but sometimes it cannot be done accurately.