Coin Photography Help?

[WinstonWare]

I bought a new camera primarily because I wanted to take better pictures of my daughter. I was able to figure out enough about the camera to become somewhat proficient at taking portrait type photos.

 

I hadn’t attempted to take any coin photos until last night. The camera in question is a Cannon 60D with the 18-135mm lens that the kit came with. I’m using the macro mode with the camera and a copy stand with two bulbs. I’m using the manual focus but what appears to me to be in focus results in an image that is just slightly out of focus. The color appears true. In the Buffalo images, I think I need to diffuse the light some – maybe put a piece of white paper between the bulbs and the coin or something like that.

 

My questions are:

1) Do you think I need to invest in a macro lens if I want to take better pictures?

 

2) Do you think I just need to take more pictures using my current set-up?

 

3) Any other suggestions from what you read from my description of my set-up and see from the images of my pictures?

 

Thanks for any insight!

 

 

[kryptonitecomics]

I don't like the idea of manual focus as I don't think the human eye looking thru a viewfinder is going to be able to dial in the focus enough to get sharp images so leave it in auto-focus mode. Most folks I know use Aperture mode on their cameras so on yours it's the Av on the dial. Page 116 of your manual should give you some basic instructions and I recommend at least an aperture setting of f16 if you want to get a good all around focus on your coin including high relief and low relief plus this allows you to tilt the coin a bit to get more light on all part of the surface and still maintain image focus. I would also recommend 3 light sources at least 12 to 18 inches above the coin, just make sure they aren't right over the coin or you will get slab glare.

 

 

As far as a macro lens...I swear by them and think they are critical to getting top notch images but if money is an issue then you can certainly still get nice images without the macro lens. I would never difuse the light on an MS coin...you might just need to make sure your light source is further away from the coins surface in the case of the buffalo nickel.

[WinstonWare]

Thanks for the pointers! I'll definately give those a try.

[brg5658]

The white balance looks off to my eyes. They both come across as more pink than they should be (even if they are toned). Try using the custom white balance (not the auto white balance), and use a sheet of bright white paper to set it under the exact same lighting you will shoot the coin.

 

If you prefer to use manual focus, then you should use the software that came along with your Canon 60D and shoot remotely from your computer. If you use a lens that allows auto-focus then this is less of a problem. Also, no matter if you are using auto-focus or manual focus, you should also try using the 2-second timer to cut down on the shake (which may be adding some to your blur problem).

 

I personally shoot with manual focus only lenses mounted on a bellows, so I don't have an auto-focus option. BUT, if you want to get an absolutely phenomenal macro lens perfect for shooting coins and also for portraiture, then the Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 lens is the one for you. It runs in the $400 range (relatively inexpensive as macro lenses go), and is a superb lens with wonderful reviews. Here is a link on Amazon to the lens: http://www.amazon.com/Canon-EF-S-Macro-Digital-Cameras/dp/B0007WK8KS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336579573&sr=8-1

 

Best of luck, and please keep posting your images here so we can see your progress!

 

-Brandon

[WinstonWare]

Brandon, thanks for the pointers. I set my copystand up right next to my computer. I didn't even realize I could shoot remotely from my computer That would be a big time saver among other things. I'll check out that macro lens too. Thanks!

[TomB]

The white balance does look off, but I disagree with those who suggest to use autofocus. I use manual focus exclusively, but whatever works for someone is fine.

[brg5658]

The white balance does look off, but I disagree with those who suggest to use autofocus. I use manual focus exclusively, but whatever works for someone is fine.

 

I also exclusively use manual focus.

[bsshog40]

I'll have to admit, I've never used manual focus. My canon has a super-macro mode that will focus in at 0 mm.

[AnkurJ]

A macro lens is a must in my opinion. They aren't cheap though.

[WinstonWare]

Thanks again everyone for your input (thumbs u

[messydesk]

1. White balance is off. Never use "auto white balance." Either use the white balance for the specific light type you're using or the custom or preset white balance that allows you to calibrate it to a gray card.

 

2. While macro mode on a kit lens isn't optimal, you should be able to get acceptable pictures with it if all you're doing is sharing on the web. If you have sufficiently fine control over the manual focus, use it. What might work well is to enable the auto-focus to get a first picture, then turn it off and do fine focusing adjustments not be touching the lens, but by moving the camera up and down the mast and checking the focus in the images after you take them to see how to adjust. Hopefully, your copy stand allows you to do this easily and with fairly fine control, such as a crank that lets you easily move the camera up or down by 1 mm.

 

3. Put the lights up a little higher on the Buffalo, see how that helps and then try diffusion. I posted a thread here somewhere that shows the effects of different levels of diffusion without moving the lights at all.

 

4. Turn off the image stabilization when the camera is mounted to a copy stand. It can actually work against you.

 

5. Use the aperture priority ("A" or "Av") mode and set the aperture for f8 or f11.

 

You should be able to, and should try to solve most of the problems in the pictures before investing in more equipment.

[WinstonWare]

Thanks for the pointers. Will try them out!

[lcoopie]

Messy has it

[WinstonWare]

So I went down to my local camera shop and bought the EF 100mm f/2.8 macro USM lens that canon makes. The guy at the store asked me what I would be using it for and I told him – coins. He proceeded to attach the lens to one of the cameras they had there, take a quarter out of the register, and snap some images by hand. Truth be told, his images by hand were far better than the images I had been taking on my copy-stand. He told me I was always welcome to bring my setup in with the images I had taken and they would be glad to give me pointers as I try to improve. It was a great experience. I could have saved $20 or whatever by going to best buy but I’m glad that I didn’t. Hope to have some images by the end of the weekend…

[WinstonWare]

Single-handedly keeping this thread going but I couldn't help and try a quick picture with my new lens. Clearly need to continue to work on some adjustments but the lens alone seems to create some improvement...

 

[rrantique]

That will work Winston. (thumbs u

[mvc-migration]

1.

 

4. Turn off the image stabilization when the camera is mounted to a copy stand. It can actually work against you.

 

 

 

I have not heard that one before. Can you elaborate?

 

thanks

[TomB]

For what it is worth, I also turn off image stabilization when doing coin photography.

[messydesk]

I found this explanation to the IS (or Nikon VR) vs. tripod, which is directly from someone at Canon:

The IS mechanism operates by correcting shake. When there is no shake, or when the level of shake is below the threshold of the system's detection capability, use of the IS feature may actually *add* unwanted blur to the photograph, therefore you should shut it off in this situation. Remember that the IS lens group is normally locked into place. When the IS function is active, the IS lens group is unlocked so it can be moved by the electromagnetic coil surrounding the elements. When there's not enough motion for the IS system to detect, the result can sometimes be a sort of electronic 'feedback loop,' somewhat analogous to the ringing noise of an audio feedback loop we're all familiar with. As a result, the IS lens group might move while the lens is on a tripod, unless the IS function is switched off and the IS lens group is locked into place.

The more the IS (VR) technology improves, the less necessary it will become to remember to do this, as the lenses are getting better at detecting a motionless situation (e.g., copy stand). Turning off IS should also prolong your battery life a little.

[brg5658]

John, just for clarification you mean turn the stabilizer switch to off on the lens, correct? If the lens doesn't have "IS" in the name then it is not an image stabilize compatible lens, and thus you can't turn it on/off.

 

I never have to worry about this "IS" problem, because I use full manual lenses, in particular, my main coin lens is a duplicating flat field lens mounted on a bellows...I guess I'm just old school like that.

 

[TomB]

Yes, you flip the switch on the side of the lens to turn off IS (or VR). On the Nikon lenses, they use the terminology VR instead, but it is the same.

[brg5658]

I assume VR stands for vibration reduction?

 

For what it's worth, if you're using a Nikon camera for macro photography, the lack of an electronic first shutter curtain (EFSC) will also cause you a decent amount of blurriness to your images even if you have VR off, use a tripod, and use a remote shutter release or a timer. This is mostly only a problem at magnifications of 2:1 or more. A nice article by Charles Krebs shows some shots with a microscope mounted Canon body.

[TomB]

Yes, VR stands for vibration reduction, if I recall correctly. I use a Nikon with copystand, but do not use a remote shutter or timer. If one is careful, blury images need not be a problem.

[messydesk]

IS is Image Stabilization (Canon), VR is Vibration Reduction (Nikon), OS is Optical Stabilization (Sigma), and others have their own terms, all trademarks of their respective companies, for sure, all mean the same thing.

 

My coin lenses don't have VR, either. I have old, manual focus 55/2.8 and 105/4 Micro-Nikkors, and a 200/4 AF-D lens, which I focus manually. With more and more lenses coming with the VR/IS/OS... options, however, it's one of those things that bears mentioning, because it's definitely not an intuitive move at first to turn it off.

[brg5658]

John do you shoot Canon or Nikon body? Just curious. (EDIT: Though I see you say you shoot with Nikkor lenses -- so Nikon -- but still curious of which body model).

 

I shoot with both a Canon 50D and a Canon T2i (same chip as the Canon 7D for 1/5 the money).

[messydesk]

I'm currently shooting with a Nikon D80 body.

[Oldtrader3]

I use a Nikon D100 body with either a (cheaper) Sigma Macro 50mm 1:2.8 D (1:1) Macro lens or an expensive Nikkor 35-70mm, 1:2.8 ED (1:2) Micro Nikkor lens for larger coins. This body uses the Nikkor AF-D lenses as well as IS lenses. The body has three different white balance settings for light source temperature. I also have a Nikon XB28DX flash and halogen fixed lights. No image stabilization helps for this type of photography.

 

I need to build a new light box for it. My kit with box and several ISO level flashes, extension tubes, bellows fixtures and meters, etc (In an aluminum camera box) was stolen from me in a home invasion robbery at 2 AM. This also include my remote cords and many filters. Now if my skills would just return to their former level of ten years ago, life would be good.

[WinstonWare]

I finally got a chance to play a little bit with the white balance and the aperture. It seems like the aperture is best somewhere in the middle of the settings – around 15 to 20. Does that sound right? These are the images as they came off my camera. I didn’t play with them in any image editing tool except to size them down. All comments, suggestions, opinions welcome. Thanks!

 

 

[brg5658]

To my eye (and on my screen) the white balance is still very far red-shifted. Below is what a little post-processing can do to get rid of some of it, but it's better to get your white balance right in camera (and it's also less work!).

 

[TomB]

You still seem to be drifted over too far into the red with your color balance.