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all coins over $2,500 on eBay must now be graded by NGC or PCGS

17 posts in this topic

Just got this email from eBay:

 

Starting May 30, all new listings and relistings in coin categories will need to meet the following requirements:

 

First, listings for coins will be allowed to include a numeric grade in their listing title or item description only if the coin grading company meets certain objective standards.* Coins that haven't been graded by these companies will be considered raw or ungraded. Currently, eBay has determined that only the Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC) and the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) meet these standards.

 

Second, for US Coins only, grading by companies meeting these standards will now be required for all coins listed with a Buy It Now, reserve, or start price of $2,500 and above.

 

The first point doesn't surprise me, I thought they were already doing this? But the second point is pretty big.

 

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Kinda tosses the idea of competition out the window as far as TPG's go eh? If one goes belly up I guess your stuff will then have to be graded by the last one standing to be considered sellable to the bottom feeders that troll E-Bay.

 

There are better auctions, for the record.

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And the $2500 rule only applies to US coins not world coins. Possibly because the supply of TPG graded world coins is still relatively small?

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It had to happen. Not a lot of dealers are affected for raw large bid raw coins but maybe the major abuse will lessen. We often discuss those few, most egregious, raw dealers who predate on small and less knowledgeable collectors with their altered and expensive or misrepresented coins in Ebay listings. We talk about how bad it is and dishonest but nobody does anything, most of all Ebay, until now. This is not about dealers who sell top collectable TPS coins and are doing their best to be fair and still make a living.

 

This will become a regulated industry like securities if the abuses continue. Too much money is being ground from significant into smaller and smaller "value added" quotients. In fact much value is destroyed and lost forever at a rate which is accelerated with these techniques.

 

We all lose when this happens! The entire hobby loses adherents and new collectors are afraid to grow into more ambitious collections. I am aware of several registry members here who turned their backs on collecting forever. We all lose when this happens, especially when nearly all of these collections were quite nice and intense expressions of their owners.

 

 

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It had to happen. Not a lot of dealers are affected for raw large bid raw coins but maybe the major abuse will lessen. We often discuss those few, most egregious, raw dealers who predate on small and less knowledgeable collectors with their altered and expensive or misrepresented coins in Ebay listings. We talk about how bad it is and dishonest but nobody does anything, most of all Ebay, until now. This is not about dealers who sell top collectable TPS coins and are doing their best to be fair and still make a living.

 

This will become a regulated industry like securities if the abuses continue. Too much money is being ground from significant into smaller and smaller "value added" quotients. In fact much value is destroyed and lost forever at a rate which is accelerated with these techniques.

 

We all lose when this happens! The entire hobby loses adherents and new collectors are afraid to grow into more ambitious collections. I am aware of several registry members here who turned their backs on collecting forever. We all lose when this happens, especially when nearly all of these collections were quite nice and intense expressions of their owners.

 

 

Well said, Oldtrader. While you can't make all of the people happy all of the time, I think, overall, this is good for the hobby and for ebay. In my opinion, self regulation and policing is preferable to government action which tends to be heavy-handed. All you need are a few complaints to an ambitious State Attorney General and the next thing you know the entire industry comes under scrutiny. I've seen it before in other industries.

 

 

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I believe it will result in many ANACS and ICG coins being cracked out and submitted to PCGS or NGC and the owners hoping for good grades. I think this will primarily impact numismatic coins vs mods or bullion. Really, someone is going to crack a common mod commem 69 graded silver dollar (about a $50-$60 coin) and pay a grading fee and shipping to get it in another TPG holder in their 69 grade?

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I have never spent $2500 on a coin and probably never will, but if I had the means I would absolutely want a coin worth that much certified by either NGC or PCGS.

 

And I don't really blame eBay. I blame the Chinese counterfeiters, who seem to be able to replicate any coin these days with near perfect results. Watches too.

 

 

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I can't recall ever spending $2500 on a coin either. I basically shy away from big ticket coins over $1000 unless its something like a one oz bullion gold coin. I like coins usually in the $100-300 range but have many under $100 because of many deals where I took it all. Lately, it seems many people are looking for material $50 and under.

 

So the ebay decision on $2500 material is a moot issue for me. I am wondering who has that kinda money they would buy a $2500+ raw coin anyhow without blinking. That such a piece was raw (excluding World and Bullion) would send a red flag to almost anyone.

 

Their decision did impact me on ANACS and ICG coins in my inventory which although a very small part of it, I have decided to crack / cross to NGC or PCGS holders. However many of these, the grading fee did not justify it like say a mod coin in 69 which trades relatively close to melt anyhow or some cheap coin worth only around $15. Common sense is my compass in these decisions.

 

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I...f I had the means I would absolutely want a coin worth that much [more than $2,500] certified by either NGC or PCGS.

 

I agree. I would say that the odds are at least 80-85% if not higher that if a coin is worth that much and not in a PCGS or NGC holder, then there is a good chance that the coin is a problem coin or is grossly misrepresented for what it truly is. I don't have a problem with the new policy.

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This is a non-event for most collectors. It is more to convince the widows and orphans that EBay does care after all! Changes like this one are so irrelevant and minuscule incremental to their sales net figure that it hardly makes any difference. It is fodder for their legal pundits to convince a third party (a Judge?) of some policy of blanket protection that is, in practice, largely irrelevant! That is unless they get an interested party who understands collectibles.

 

Call me when this EBay, altered state of reality, dream is over!

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This is a non-event for most collectors. It is more to convince the widows and orphans that Ebay does care after all! Changes like this one are so irrelevant and minisculely incremental to their sales net figure that it hardly makes any difference. It is fodder for their legal pundits to convince a third party (a Judge?) of some policy of blanket protection that is, in practice, largely irrelevent! That is unless thay get an intersted party who understands collectibles.

 

Call me when this Ebay, altered state of reality, dream is over!

 

Sad but true....

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With the current state of the market, Chinese fakes, AT coins, NGC's refusal to cross them, CAC verification available only for PCGS/NGC, I can't imagine buying an ANACS coin in the $2000 range, period. Many big-ticket ANACS coins have problems and would not grade the same at PCGS/NGC. I would rather buy raw, because at least I can see the whole coin and know there isn't hidden rim damage. Inexpensive collector grade coins are another story; we handle a good 3 or 4 of them a year! :/

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This board focus on Ebay seems to be sharply aggregated around raw coins in the $500. range of pricing, not the $2500 red herring most recently agreed to by Ebay as a goal. Allcoinswanted (a Power Seller on Ebay) has been the target of some scrutiny recently regarding seemingly fraudulent representation of altered or counterfeit coins in significant listing numbers. Looking over this Power Seller on Ebay's listings, he has a number (300+ this week) of listings, many of which fall into the "what is this coin really about" category

 

I know that G. Herrmann (a professed Ebay Team Member) resides here, posts and defends Ebay practices in his oblique manner. I guess he filters his news to happy time propaganda only! No word, certainly by him, about the many listings and somewhat suspicious raw coins being forwarded by Allcoinswanted as an example, seems to have filtered through Ebay's haze filter into their particular reality, wherever that may lay?

 

This ability to see only what they want to see is not unique to Ebay certainly. However, there are some large raw coin commerce (on Ebay) dollar numbers being bandied around this and other coin sites as net sales for Ebay which leads me to believe that Ebay maybe should take this issue a little more seriously since they piggyback much fees and income off everyone of these suspect listings and transactions, but more revenue as well off legitimate ones. This behavior seems odd to me with little return for their reputation risk?

 

Ebay needs to rethink their policy limits on raw coin counterfeit and altered enforcement and at least to add some resident coin dealer knowledge within thier staffing which would provide some or even maybe timely follow up, with specific knowledge, to complaints which they must receive daily on counterfeits and altered , higher dollar coins. They harvest a lot of money on thier coin sales venue and much value is being squandered by a few disreputable Power Sellers. Are they affording this guys special protection and why are they protecting these guys?

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