World coin TPG choice & resale strength

[bluel-migration]

On some "other" board there is always way too much talk about how the "other" TPG dominates the market for resale value. However, I also read that NGC is basically far and beyond the superior TPG for world coins. How do these two positions resolve? Do world coins in NGC holders retain value and buyer interest as much as the "other" TPG supposedly does for US coins?

 

From my perusing heritage archives I don't see much of a difference between the two... but what's the actual (technically meaningless yet economically impactful) market impression?

[tejas1836]

Usually a PCGS vs NGC thread generates quite a few comments. I can't help you out, but there are some world coin collectors on this forum that might help.

 

Hopefully some will respond.

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

I used to send all my world coins to NGC for grading. NGC is hands down the most respected and dominant player in the world coin market.

 

However, since their changes to the Registry, I haven't sent anything in -and don't plan to. I'll just keep them raw, which is also a perfectly acceptable alternative in the world market.

[TwoKopeiki]

I'll try to be completely unbiased in my assessment and show facts that people cannot dispute, such as closed auction results and existing retail inventory.

 

NGC is the leader in the volume of graded World Coins. This is very clear when you look at various on-line world coin merchants that specialize in certified coins like North East Numismatics (www.northeastcoin.com), major auction houses like Heritage and Stacks, as well as active eBay listings.

 

eBay in the Coins: World category has the following stats as of today:

 

NGC: 9,359 listings with top category being Europe (3,106) and North & Central America (1,048)

PCGS: 3,008 listings with top category being Asia (1,075) and Europe (1,054)

 

By the way, even though i'm trying to show the volume, this will start to give you the first glance at seller's understanding of what drives value, which hopefully is based on their historic observations of customer preferences, especially if you consider the "hot" countries in the recent years (Russia, China, India).

 

North East Numismatics inventory:

 

NGC: 1,173 coins listed

PCGS: 136 coins listed

 

Let's look at all the upcoming Heritage World Coin auctions:

 

NGC: 3,343

PCGS: 682

 

And all completed world coin auctions at Heritage to date:

 

NGC: 35,986

PCGS: 15,683

 

So, when you look at the volumes of offered graded world coins, NGC definitely appears to be the market leader.

 

Now, when we talk about value, it's a different story. I challenge you to find me the same date and condition sold in the same auction / time period on eBay / on-line store where NGC brought in a higher price than PCGS. There are numerous examples of the opposite, or at least the same price paid. But I am yet to see it swing the other way.

 

Based on my personal experience when it comes time to sell I would much rather have my coins in PCGS plastic. This might be different for you and I would like to hear your reasoning in that case.

 

Just my 2 cents (or kopeks)

 

 

[bluel-migration]

Thank you, everyone. That's exactly what I was looking for, certainly not a TPG-vs-TPG discussion.

[World Colonial]

I'll try to be completely unbiased in my assessment and show facts that people cannot dispute, such as closed auction results and existing retail inventory.

 

NGC is the leader in the volume of graded World Coins. This is very clear when you look at various on-line world coin merchants that specialize in certified coins like North East Numismatics (www.northeastcoin.com), major auction houses like Heritage and Stacks, as well as active eBay listings.

 

eBay in the Coins: World category has the following stats as of today:

 

NGC: 9,359 listings with top category being Europe (3,106) and North & Central America (1,048)

PCGS: 3,008 listings with top category being Asia (1,075) and Europe (1,054)

 

By the way, even though i'm trying to show the volume, this will start to give you the first glance at seller's understanding of what drives value, which hopefully is based on their historic observations of customer preferences, especially if you consider the "hot" countries in the recent years (Russia, China, India).

 

North East Numismatics inventory:

 

NGC: 1,173 coins listed

PCGS: 136 coins listed

 

Let's look at all the upcoming Heritage World Coin auctions:

 

NGC: 3,343

PCGS: 682

 

And all completed world coin auctions at Heritage to date:

 

NGC: 35,986

PCGS: 15,683

 

So, when you look at the volumes of offered graded world coins, NGC definitely appears to be the market leader.

 

Now, when we talk about value, it's a different story. I challenge you to find me the same date and condition sold in the same auction / time period on eBay / on-line store where NGC brought in a higher price than PCGS. There are numerous examples of the opposite, or at least the same price paid. But I am yet to see it swing the other way.

 

Based on my personal experience when it comes time to sell I would much rather have my coins in PCGS plastic. This might be different for you and I would like to hear your reasoning in that case.

 

Just my 2 cents (or kopeks)

 

 

I do not believe there are enough comporable coins in either holder to make a real comparison. Most issues have either very few in the census or none because graded coins are not popular with most collectors outside of the US.

 

The one series I collect where there actually a large number of graded coins, I still do not belive the comparison can be made. This is South Africa ZAR and to a lesser extent, Union. For ZAR, most of the census numbers are in the hundreds and a few likewise for Union. But the coins still do not come for sale that frequently in the same grade in both holder in very close proximity. In NGC holders sometimes, but not in PCGS. It probably has happened a few times but I do not recall it.

 

I will say though that my anecdotal experience indicates that South Africa coins in PCGS holders seem to be of better quality than comporably graded NGC specimens. Maybe not technically since I have not been able to compare the two in person, but the eye appeal just seems ot be better.

[mkman123]

I see more world coins graded by ngc so would buy mostly ngc but I don't prefer the plastic but graded.world coins are more easily found in ngc slabs.

[sixtlghorn]

Based on my personal experience when it comes time to sell I would much rather have my coins in PCGS plastic. This might be different for you and I would like to hear your reasoning in that case.

 

IMO there is no doubt that PCGS has a definite edge in prices received, comparing apples to apples, in US coins. OTOH I believe it is just the opposite with world coins, or at least the ones for which I have a few hundred slabs. By choice, I've got mostly NGC slabs for world coins and I only have PCGS when I bought the coin in a PCGS holder. I think, actually know, that many of the PCGS world coins in the areas I collect WOULD NOT cross to the same grade at NGC. I just bought a Colombian Republic 8 Escudo in PCGS plastic that would NEVER cross to NGC at the same grade IMO. If it would, I'd probably try to cross it.

 

All of the major World Coin collections that I can think of that were sold in the last decade, Eliasberg and the Millenia Collection come to mind instantly, or so, have chosen to have their coins slabbed by NGC. Since the sellers obviously had a choice that should tell the tale. While they were sold raw, as are most Euro auctions, I am aware of no coins that came out of the Aureo y Calico Caballero de Las Yndias that were slabbed in PCGS plastic. I'm certainly not saying there aren't any, I just haven't seen them. OTOH, I own and have since purchase several that are in NGC holders.

 

Given a choice, I'd take all my coins in PCGS holders for US coins, and all NGC for world coins.

 

 

 

[JCM-Houston]

For world coins I don't see any advantage in prices for either TPG. I own mostly NGC simply because they have graded the most world coins, and by and large I think they do a decent job of it. I used to use them for all my grading when submitting raw coins also. They lost a lot of good will when they squashed the World sets in the registry but I assume it was worth it to them. I guess the idea was to try to convince people like me, who only had maybe a dozen or two PCGS coins (out of several hundred) to spend money getting them in to NGC plastic, it didn't work though.

 

PCGS has done an excellent job in selling their service. The fan boys love to make pretty outragious comments on the US coin side, and in fact many of them won't even consider a coin not in a PCGS holder because they really believe PCGS is better. But since I don't collect US coins I feel like I can say as a disinterested 3rd party it just isn't so. I have seen just as many coins in PCGS holders as in NGC.

[sixtlghorn]

John:

 

Any knowledgeable numismatists knows to "buy the coin, not the holder." The whole point of slabs initially was to make coins fungible. To some extent, that worked with something like 81 S Morgans, common date gold, etc and while rarer coin's holder grades certainly influence the final prices in a sale, I know of many coins in the same grade, both PCGS and NGC that have sold for significantly higher or lower than the "posted" or average price. In fact, I believe the differences in the philosophy of grading between NGC and PCGS on US coins revolves around how they treat "eye appeal" vs technical surface grading. These differences aren't glaring but they are there.