Please rank the most difficult Frankies to find "toned"

[James_OldeTowne]

I recently posted images of my toned Franklin set here . Pretty much every coin is at least moderately toned (a couple are only lightly so).

 

I remember seeing commentary here and there in the past stating that certain dates in the series are very difficult to find toned, and was wondering which dates those are. And, is that because of a lack of mint-sets for those particular issues?

 

Thanks in advance.

[SkyMan]

I would say 1960-D or 1961-D. 1950-D can be tricky too.

[kryptonitecomics]

The 1959-1963's are certainly more difficult due to the change in packaging but there are other years that can be a challenge to find nicely toned. There was a great series of threads ATS that Frank Chiong (FC57Coins) did years ago. I bundeled them all together and had a member post it but I just checked the link and it's no longer working. Still if you do a search for Franklin Half Instructional you will see them all with different threads for different dates...examples:

 

1948-P

 

1948-D

 

1949-P

 

1949-S

[bochiman]

Good luck finding nicely toned 1959-D as well.....very few and very far between.

[James_OldeTowne]

Good luck finding nicely toned 1959-D as well.....very few and very far between.

If you don't mind, please click the link I included above and take a glance at my '59-D. I'd like to know how you rate it (as opposed to "grade" it - it isn't high grade). Thanks.

[physics-fan3.14]

The 1959-1963's are certainly more difficult due to the change in packaging but there are other years that can be a challenge to find nicely toned. There was a great series of threads ATS that Frank Chiong (FC57Coins) did years ago. I bundeled them all together and had a member post it but I just checked the link and it's no longer working. Still if you do a search for Franklin Half Instructional you will see them all with different threads for different dates...examples:

 

His excellent series can be found here, with pictures: http://coinzip.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=franklin&field=subject&order=asc&page=1

 

As Shane said, 59-63 are among the hardest.

 

Also, I will post here the excellent introduction to Skyman's superlative set of Franklins. He has distilled the information into a quick guide. His set can be found here: http://coins.www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/SetListing.aspx?PeopleSetID=8611

 

Here is a quick and dirty guide to TYPICAL colors Frankies will tone in from 1948-58 (I'll start adding info for 1959-63 later). You can find Frankies in any of these dates/mintmarks with nice colors, but expect to pay more above and beyond the conditional rarity of the technical grade and "normal" toning prices, for nicely toned coins with the tougher date/mintmark combos. Also, when you do find a toner in the tougher date/mintmark combos, the colors will often appear more muted on a darker background. However, I've seen NT iridescent colors even on normally dull date/mintmark combos.

 

Also, you will see relative difficulty numbers for finding toned MS 65 Franklins. These numbers come from, "The Complete Guide to Franklin Half Dollars", by Rick Tomaska. The easiest toned coins to find have a rarity rating of 1 and the toughest have a rating of 8. These numbers are relative numbers in that all they show is which dates/mintmarks are more difficult to find than others. The ranking has nothing to do with actual numbers of toned coins (e.g. an 8 is not 8 times more difficult to find than a 1. In actuality it is much, much more difficult). Also this number is applicable SOLELY to Franklins, and is not per se a spin off of other rarity systems.

 

After each date description you will see two numbers. The first number deals with the difficulty of finding a toned coin in FBL and the second number is to find a toned Franklin period, e.g. with or without FBL. For example after 1949-S you will see (4, 2). This means that for the 1949-S the relative level of difficulty to find a toned FBL is a 4, while to find one with toning WITH OR WITHOUT FBL is a 2.

 

 

1948-P Dull golden brown (2, 2).

 

1948-D Dull golden brown (3, 3).

 

1949-P This is a bit better than the 1948 (3, 3).

 

1949-D Gray/dull brown (7, 6).

 

1949-S Dull golden brown or violet (4, 2).

 

1950-P No govt. issue mint sets, so toners are tough to find (4, 3).

 

1950-D Dull golden gray (6, 6).

 

1951-P Gray (4, 3).

 

1951-D Dull gray or brown (5, 5).

 

1951-S Average toning, but can tone in burgundy, orange, violet, green (6, 3).

 

1952-P Relatively often some good toners. Burgundy, gold, wine-red (3, 2).

 

1952-D Dull gray or brown (5, 4).

 

1952-S Dull blue-gray, some with golden orange and burgundy (7, 3).

 

1953-P Often attractive, burgundy, blue, gold, orange (7, 4).

 

1953-D Dull gray or brown (5, 4).

 

1953-S Dull gray or brown (8, 1).

 

1954-P Dull mottled toning (4, 3).

 

1954-D Most are gray, but some can be found with iridescent wine-red, burgundy, or golden-orange (3, 3).

 

1954-S Mellow golden brown (5, 1).

 

1955-P Darker blue, golden brown (2, 1).

 

1956-P Relatively often some good toners. Deep purple, blue, green, burgundy, golden-orange (2, 1).

 

1957-P Relatively often some good toners. Purple, blue, burgundy, golden-orange, golden-olive (2, 1).

 

1957-D Dull gray, some with iridescent golden-olive, burgundy (1, 1).

 

1958-P Relatively often some good toners. Sunburst golden-yellows to deep purple (2, 1).

 

1958-D Dull gray, some with iridescent green, golden-orange, red (1, 1).

 

1959-P (4,3).

 

1959-D (4,4).

 

1960-P (5,4).

 

1960-D (7,6).

 

1961-P (7,4).

 

1961-D (7,5).

 

1962-P (7,5).

 

1962-D (7,4).

 

1963-P (5,3).

 

1963-D (4,3).

 

As you can see, there are a LOT of dull Frankies out there. However, there are enough goodies to make it worthwhile... particularly when you find a nicely toned one from a "bad" year/mintmark.

[bochiman]

Good luck finding nicely toned 1959-D as well.....very few and very far between.

If you don't mind, please click the link I included above and take a glance at my '59-D. I'd like to know how you rate it (as opposed to "grade" it - it isn't high grade). Thanks.

 

I did that prior. I found it better than most, but I didn't find it special. I would take it over a plain white example anyway, and pay a small premium (small), but I have seen a couple (I don't have) and that were slabbed, that I believe to be NT that I would like.....however, out of hundreds I have looked at, only 2 met that bar.

 

I would also agree with the statement posted that the '59-'63 are some of the hardest to find nicely toned due to the lack of the cardboard double mint set holders.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

For me, an attractive 54S- vey difficult.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[SkyMan]

Good luck finding nicely toned 1959-D as well.....very few and very far between.

If you don't mind, please click the link I included above and take a glance at my '59-D. I'd like to know how you rate it (as opposed to "grade" it - it isn't high grade). Thanks.

 

It is a pleasant '59-D. Certainly quite a bit better than most. However, there are some quite nicely toned '59-D's out there. FWIW, IMO your '52-D and '53-D, on purely a toning basis, are BY FAR the most impressive coins in your set, compared to the average Franklins of those date/mm's.

 

Regarding finding toned 1959's (P and D), compared to the rest of the 1950 and 1959 - 1963 Franklins (these were the dates where there was NO paper/cardboard Mint Set packaging, indeed, no Mint Sets at all in 1950), I find the 1963-D to be the easiest to find, and then 1959 (P and D).

 

To give you an example of what (IMO) a top of the line toned '59-D looks like, here's mine, an old, "fatty" MS65...

 

[James_OldeTowne]

This has been an extremely educational thread for me! THANK YOU everyone for your very helpful comments. Also, I've clicked through several links, and obviously have a lot to read!

[HCumberdale]

I would like to echo James_EarlyUS to say that I appreciated this thread very much. Thanks for all the great information! I am currently looking for a MS65 49-S, though I am wavering between wanting a nicely toned example or one with the PL dies. The FBL distiction is not incredibly important to me, and actually the price jump makes me a little hesitant. I will definitely use this list to perhaps waver from looking for exclusively a 49-S possibly in favor something a little harder to come by if it happens to show up!

[coinman_23885]

I would like to echo James_EarlyUS to say that I appreciated this thread very much. Thanks for all the great information! I am currently looking for a MS65 49-S, though I am wavering between wanting a nicely toned example or one with the PL dies. The FBL distiction is not incredibly important to me, and actually the price jump makes me a little hesitant. I will definitely use this list to perhaps waver from looking for exclusively a 49-S possibly in favor something a little harder to come by if it happens to show up!

 

A decedent grade PL example will cost you just as much as a FBL example.

[HCumberdale]

You are right Kenny, which is why I would probably prefer a 65 without the FBL distinction or PL die. Somehow though the PL seems more "worth it" to me which is why I have been wavering. Perhaps I am just not sophisticated enough to appreciate the good strike that the FBL requires. It seems to me (and admittingly I am an amateur) that there are some decent quality strikes without the FBL distinction available, though I have thus far found everything offerred for sale at the MS65 grade without these distictions to be unattractive IMO. I passed up on a nice MS65 1949-S with the PL die at FUN and I am slightly regretting that decision...but I suspect much of that regret is due to my lack of patience and just wanting to see the coin in my collection now rather than waiting till I find exactly what I set out to find

[physics-fan3.14]

I would like to echo James_EarlyUS to say that I appreciated this thread very much. Thanks for all the great information! I am currently looking for a MS65 49-S, though I am wavering between wanting a nicely toned example or one with the PL dies. The FBL distiction is not incredibly important to me, and actually the price jump makes me a little hesitant. I will definitely use this list to perhaps waver from looking for exclusively a 49-S possibly in favor something a little harder to come by if it happens to show up!

 

A decedent grade PL example will cost you just as much as a FBL example.

 

A decent grade PL example will cost you considerably MORE than a FBL example. Trust me, I've owned more than one. For one of the top 5 nicest ones in existence, see my example here: http://coins.www.collectors-society.com/WCM/CoinView.aspx?PeopleSetCoinID=1236041

[fishfinder]

Very nice PL Jason, congrats on the P/U. Did someone get the + on a re-holder? It dang near looks like my MS65 FBL PL that was originaly in a PCGS holder. Do you know the population breakdown? I still have to work on the pictures.