NGC TO REMOVE PCGS COINS FROM WORLD REGISTRY

[cpm9ball]

Like I said in my first and only post, I don't participate in the Registry, but I have been following this thread with great interest.

 

I don't think it changes anything from the standpoint of customer service at NGC. I still have a great amount of respect for them and the job they perform. I also have a great amount of respect for the rest of the staff from the executive level down. Honestly, I'm a bit surprised that we haven't heard from either Mark Salzberg or Scott Schechter on this subject. I would have thought, considering some of the things that have been said and done, that they would chime in.

 

Chris

[gpnyc]

The reality is that NGC is a for profit buisness, they have given a free pass for a long time on this issue to PCGS coins, whereas PCGS has in its arrogance snuffed NGC coins in their Registry, creating a whole group of folks ATS that think for some crazy reason that the holder matters as much, or possibly, more, than the coins in them. NGC must think that is affecting their buisness or they would have never done this.

 

I think you have said it best. While PCGS acts as if they are the kings of US coin grading, clearly its the opposite for world coins. As a personal observation from spending two days at the NYINC show earlier this month, about 3/4 of the graded material was in NGC holders... there were white slab cores as far as they eye could see. The proportion grows even higher (probably 9 out of 10) for the older material. PCGS just doesn't appear to be all that much of a factor in the slabbed world coin market. A quick glance of the Heritage archives backs this up (34,000 NGC graded items v. 14,000 PCGS graded items).

 

The reason NGC made this move is... because they can. They are the market leader in this area. Its clear some of my fellow posters are upset but I can't get too bent out of shape about this.

[Walkerfan]

I do not participate in the registry arena so please take this with a grain of salt.

 

If NGC is making this move because of inconsistancy standards/attributes between the two services why not do this---

 

Discount PCGS registry coins by 5%,10% or 20% to their like NGC peers. NGC coins are rewarded/referenced and PCGS coins can continue to participate in the NGC Registry.

 

Just a thought.

 

MJ

 

I would think that many of those affected would probably still be upset. While I understand the frustration, I'm not convinced, as are many of my posters, that this is all a money grab. World coins are so diverse and there are so many varieties that I can see NGC's point. In fairness, I will disclose that I don't have any world registry sets.

 

I agree with you--- but if they, eventually, only allow NGC coins in their US sets, then I will KNOW that it is all about money.

[Hard Times]

Now as bad as this might seem to those who want to compete for points in the Registry, let's talk about a step in the future that will affect everyone - decimal point grading. At some point, to generate the desired revenue, it seems this is the likely inevitable way to sustain such a buisness model. Don't think that they haven't discussed this already, so in some ways it could be very worse and likely to be so somewhere in the near, or far (cross my fingers ) future.......

[Crohnos01]

Decimal point grading..... great.....

 

I was a US Swimming official, but gave up being a stroke and turn judge because everything is very subject..."did both hands touch the wall at different times or did it only look like it because the water refracted the image?) I am very good with comptuers and math and so gave up on the stroke and turn judging in favor of good old fashioned computers with touch sensors and numbers that all I had to do was a little math, watch the readouts, and life was good...

 

The TPG'a are, from all sources I read, better at consistant grading than the average bloke, but there is still some subjectivity between a MS 63 and a MS 64....

 

Gimme a break.... Now I am supposed to believe that someone can call the difference on a MS 64.1 and a MS64.2? Really?

 

I know let's take those decimal points out to hundredths or thousands even....

 

Hey Guess what?! I just picked up a 1922 Peace Dollar graded MS 62.533!!!!

 

 

 

[cpm9ball]

I could be wrong, but I think "decimal" grading refers to the 100-point scale.

 

Chris

[Crohnos01]

Oh..right.... I knew that....

 

Never mind.... Getting off my soap box now......

[coinman_23885]

I could be wrong, but I think "decimal" grading refers to the 100-point scale.

 

Chris

 

I think the term could be applied to either a 100 point scale or to actual decimal grading (e.g. 65.6, etc.). As obsessive as everyone is about "+"s, CAC stickers, and "*"s I could easily see the latter being a real possibility in the near future.

[noow]

Looks like NGC thinks they are problem coins, it should just give PCGS coins a single point for the slot-fillers

[coinman_23885]

Looks like NGC thinks they are problem coins...

 

Not necessarily; NGC uses different attributions and it can be cumbersome to convert (at least that's their official position; I have no reason to doubt them about that).

[noow]

Looks like NGC thinks they are problem coins...

 

Not necessarily; NGC uses different attributions and it can be cumbersome to convert (at least that's their official position; I have no reason to doubt them about that).

[$ilverHawk]

I want to take a moment to thank NGC for the decision to exclude PCGS coins from the World Coin Registries.

 

I did not have any Registry Sets in World Coins. I did have 7 US Coin sets. Those sets have been deleted. The decision by NGC made me refocus on my collecting. Although I took delight in building registry sets and amassing registry points, I realized that my real reason for collecting was to acquire coins that I liked regardless of the holder that was a temporary home. I've also begun to acquire raw coins which I have no intention of submitting to any TGP because I am satisfied with my evaluation and do not need any third party affirmation.

 

So thank you, NGC for pushing me into a higher level of enjoying this grand experience.

 

And while I'm in the thanking mode, I want to thank each and every member of these forums that through their posts and commentaries have allowed me to grow in knowledge and appreciation of the Numismatic World.

 

Carl

 

 

 

[jom]

Hey Guess what?! I just picked up a 1922 Peace Dollar graded MS 62.533!!!!

 

Yeah, but was it AT?

 

Great. Let's add precision to what is already an inherently subjective and inaccurate process. Sounds like a plan the government would implement.

 

No matter how hard anyone tries you can't make pricing more linear (wanting to eliminate huge price jumps) by adding precision. It's like using a 1/8th scale ruler to measure the length of a car....that's going by you at 80 MPH.

 

The only thing added here is more absurdity.

 

jom

[coinman_23885]

Hey Guess what?! I just picked up a 1922 Peace Dollar graded MS 62.533!!!!

 

Yeah, but was it AT?

 

Great. Let's add precision to what is already an inherently subjective and inaccurate process. Sounds like a plan the government would implement.

 

No matter how hard anyone tries you can't make pricing more linear (wanting to eliminate huge price jumps) by adding precision. It's like using a 1/8th scale ruler to measure the length of a car....that's going by you at 80 MPH.

 

The only thing added here is more absurdity.

 

jom

 

+1

[123cents]

Though I don't collect World Coins I think this is a bad move by NGC. Many collectors, such as I, participate in the NGC registry because NGC is kind enough to allow both PCGS and NGC coins.

 

Many collectors have spent a enormous amount of time listing, describing, and photoing their coins. For NGC to change their registry rules now will be very discouraging to many loyal collectors .

 

NGC, please don't change the things that make you company and website great.

 

Carl.

[Frank Provasek]

Why not compromise and grandfather the existing PCGS coins in the registry but disallow any additions?

[coinsbygary]

Sounds good to me! (thumbs u

[cpm9ball]

Why not compromise and grandfather the existing PCGS coins in the registry but disallow any additions?

 

That would be a fair consideration. Maybe some day down the road, NGC & PCGS might agree to a compromise for attribution standards and everyone could be the better for it.

 

Chris

[TwoKopeiki]

If the reason is that reconciling different attribution is getting out of hand and becoming too hard between PCGS and NGC coins, why not just create a rule stating that only the coins already attributed to the standard of NGC will be accepted into the registry. This way, if the PCGS coin is using a different attribution than NGC - the owner will have to send it in for a cross-over if they want it as a part of their NGC Registry set. This creates an additional cross-over revenue stream for NGC, allows collectors to keep already attributed and validated PCGS coins in their sets, and doesn't disregard hours and hours of research and validation already done by NGC to "link" PCGS coins to NGC standard already in the registry.

 

 

[coinsbygary]

I like it, sounds like the perfect compromise!

[coinman_23885]

I personally don't care as I don't have a horse in this race so to speak; however, if NGC is interested, there does seem to be a possible resolution that would be prevent what appears to be a mutiny with world coin collectors: why not just grandfather in the coins already registered? There is no need to worry about cumbersome entry or verification issues of PCGS coins and the attribution work has already been done.

[Chris1976]

I don't see them doing that as they would receive numerous emails that would go along the lines of "why is (insert name) able to have PCGS coins in their set but I can't"

[TwoKopeiki]

Grandfathering existing PCGS coins would cause an issue, like an example above. Limiting to only PCGS coins that match existing NGC standard would not. It would be easy to explain to a customer trying to add a coin like that to the registry, as well.

 

Anyway, just my 2 cents (or kopecks).

 

After this change I will limit my registry participation to the Mexico War of Independence coins, since PCGS doesn't have the expertise to grade these.

 

 

[JIM F.]

Now here's a novel idea (but would never happen). PCGS coins get submitted to NGC and instead of a crossover to a new holder they get an "NGC approved" sticker put on them.

 

 

[Conder101]

Don't think that they haven't discussed this already

I'm sure they have, the plus grading is only the first step. Supposedly in house at PCGS they are already using all 101 decimal point grades from MS-60 to MS-70 (60, 60.1, 60.2, 60.3......69.8, 69.9,70) If if grades .6 or higher it qualifies for the +. Next step is to start using thos decimal point grades on the label. And if it comes to pass they will hail it as a great new innovation, even though it will be the third time decimal point grading has been used on slabs. (Accugrade in 1984, Compugrade in 1991. Although in 1991 PCGS did state that their Expert System could grade to two decimal places, but they would only be using whole number grades on the labels.)

[Crohnos01]

...... grades from MS-60 to MS-70 (60, 60.1, 60.2, 60.3......69.8, 69.9,70) If if grades .6 or higher it qualifies for the +. Next step is to start using thos decimal point grades on the label.

 

Groan....

 

In a something as subjective as grading of a coin, any two graders may come up with different grades as much as a point or more apart... now I am to believe they can differentiate down to hundredths of a point? Gimme a break... This is just getting freaking crazy between the label options and now this type of hyped grading. Is there glue involved in putting those labels in the holders? Perhaps someone should do a check to make sure there isn't some off gassing from the label glue that can affect cognative skills....

[Hard Times]

Actually it looks like tenths of a point, but still means potentially 101 different grades for an MS coin, OH MY........

 

I would love the see a book from PCGS titled - Grading Uncirculated US Coins Using the Decimal System from 60 to 70. I will wager it is not even possible to describe such a system if they implement it on the slabs.

 

[Crohnos01]

I stand corrected...you are of course right....tenths of a point. Of course, if we can do tenths of a point, why not hundredths....I say we skip hundredths and go to thousandths...Now it gets interesting!

[jom]

I stand corrected...you are of course right....tenths of a point. Of course, if we can do tenths of a point, why not hundredths....I say we skip hundredths and go to thousandths...Now it gets interesting!

 

I still think the "pink hearts, yellow moons, orange stars, and green clovers" stickers are the best solution. It's magically ludicrous!

 

jom

[Crohnos01]

I still think the "pink hearts, yellow moons, orange stars, and green clovers" stickers are the best solution. It's magically ludicrous!

 

jom

 

LMAO.... "I'm coo-koo for (insert adjective here) labels, I'm coo-koo for (insert adjective here) labels"