NGC TO REMOVE PCGS COINS FROM WORLD REGISTRY

[$ilverHawk]

Max,

 

What NGC is doing is wrong in very many ways. Please revisit the postings previous to your response.

 

The issue that sets NGC apart from PCGS is the ability to register coins from either TPG. The rationale you outline in your response is counter to the historical record of NGC being inclusive rather than exclusive towards collectors.

 

I do not have any high ranking sets in the NGC registry, but as soon as I am aware that this decision goes through, I will delete all registry sets

 

Carl

 

AKA $ILVERHAWK

 

My error, NGC has already implemented this action. My registry sets are gone as of now.

[CSdot]

There are several reasons for excluding PCGS coins from World Registry Sets. Unlike United States coins, there are hundreds of thousands of World types, and NGC and PCGS often use different terminology and attributions. It's become difficult to expand our Registry to include more World coin sets when they all have to account for these differences.

 

Registry users with PCGS coins have to wait for the coin to be approved to add it to a set, and the approval process can be difficult, if not impossible, for some World coins when a PCGS-graded coin's attributes do not match those of an NGC-graded coin. The process is very straightforward for US coins, but for World coins this is just not the case.

 

After examining the World Registry Set stats, we realized that only a handful of people have PCGS-only World sets, and the vast majority of World Registry users are either NGC-only or very close to it. It's a change that will make the Registry experience better for many people and will remove coins from relatively few sets.

 

There are no plans to do something like this for US coins. The changes will permit us to expand and enhance the NGC Registry for World coins, and there is not a similar concern for US coins.

 

Edited to add: Custom sets will also not be affected.

 

This is a good response and makes me more comfortable that a similar change is not planned for US coins. That being said, with respect to those folks with PCGS coins in world sets already, what is the reasoning behind disqualifying those coins that have already gone through the vetting process? Isn't avoiding that time consuming process of reconciling the grading differences why the change is being made? Why ignore all of the work the staff has already done? Seems you would grandfather those in?

 

What am I missing?

[physics-fan3.14]

This is a good response and makes me more comfortable that a similar change is not planned for US coins. That being said, with respect to those folks with PCGS coins in world sets already, what is the reasoning behind disqualifying those coins that have already gone through the vetting process? Isn't avoiding that time consuming process of reconciling the grading differences why the change is being made? Why ignore all of the work the staff has already done? Seems you would grandfather those in?

 

What am I missing?

 

NGC wants the collectors to spend the MONEY to cross their PCGS coins over to NGC holders. Its a marketing scheme and a money grab - unfortunately, they don't seem to realize that it is backfiring. They are actually losing a significant amount of business, and seriously damaging the customer loyalty of a large number of participants.

 

It's like watching the Titanic, and calling out "Beware, Iceberg ahead" and no one is listening.

[Lastufka Collection]

With the risk of having my head bitten off... I don't understand the "I'm not giving NGC any more of my business" mentality. You do realize that PCGS is worse, right? They never allowed NGC coins, and still don't, in any registry sets. NGC tried it, it sounds like it's not working for World coins, and they need to make the change.

 

I'm not an NGC insider, but I am a business owner, and businesses don't voluntarily make moves which they KNOW will alienate some customers, if it isn't absolutely necessary for them to grow and expand.

 

With how busy and slow turnaround times have been lately, I don't think NGC is trying for a money grab, it doesn't sound like they need it at the moment.

 

Admittedly, I don't own any PCGS graded coins, so I don't care what NGC does, as long as I can still have my NGC coins in my NGC registry (heh), but yeah, I realize a few people are pissed at the moment, but giving your business to NGC's competitor, when the competition's rules are even more strict than NGCs, just doesn't make sense to me. If you're not willing to cross a few PCGS coins over to NGC to continue your registry set in tact, why would you be willing to cross all your NGC coins to PCGS?

[physics-fan3.14]

If you're not willing to cross a few PCGS coins over to NGC to continue your registry set in tact, why would you be willing to cross all your NGC coins to PCGS?

 

I'm not. I'm just not going to play their games. Time was, I crossed PCGS to NGC. I also submitted my raw world coins to NGC, because I like their holder. But raw coins are still more common in the foreign world. Extremely long wait times (on the order of two or three months) combined with a Registry that I no longer have interest in - means that I have absolutely no reason to send my world coins to NGC anymore.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

There are several reasons for excluding PCGS coins from World Registry Sets. Unlike United States coins, there are hundreds of thousands of World types, and NGC and PCGS often use different terminology and attributions. It's become difficult to expand our Registry to include more World coin sets when they all have to account for these differences.

 

Registry users with PCGS coins have to wait for the coin to be approved to add it to a set, and the approval process can be difficult, if not impossible, for some World coins when a PCGS-graded coin's attributes do not match those of an NGC-graded coin. The process is very straightforward for US coins, but for World coins this is just not the case.

 

After examining the World Registry Set stats, we realized that only a handful of people have PCGS-only World sets, and the vast majority of World Registry users are either NGC-only or very close to it. It's a change that will make the Registry experience better for many people and will remove coins from relatively few sets.

 

There are no plans to do something like this for US coins. The changes will permit us to expand and enhance the NGC Registry for World coins, and there is not a similar concern for US coins.

 

Edited to add: Custom sets will also not be affected.

 

Good Morning Sir.

 

I do not and never have participated in the Program/Registry that is the topic of discussion, nor do I have any preconceived opinion about the changes being implemented.

 

But (there is always a "but"), I try to evaluate issues from a Logic perspective, and, unfortunately, the comments you have posted as the reason for the decision to revise the current business model (certainly your Right to do so) fail my personal Logic Test.

 

Might you consider possible alternative explanations to your Customers that would reflect the reputation NGC has previously established?

 

I am cognizant of my minor opinion. Please do not consider my self-awareness to be a barrier to your possible re-evaluation of your current position.

 

Respectfully,

John Curlis

[VDBCoins]

I know there are several threads about this in various places, but this absolutely deserves one more. NGC is planning to remove PCGS coins from World Registry sets, and make them all NGC exclusive.

 

NGC, THIS IS A TERRIBLE IDEA!!!! Who thought of this? One of the big reasons that I choose to participate in the NGC Registry instead of the other one is that you are willing to accept both NGC and PCGS. Excluding half of the collector population has never been your goal - why the sudden change? Please, reverse this terrible decision before it is too late.

 

There has been talk about NGC only sets for a while, that they will receive a bonus or be somehow set apart. I never in my life thought that would mean you would be excluding PCGS coins. I understand that NGC is far more popular, and a far better service, than PCGS when it comes to the foreign stuff. But to exclude all those coins is to deny the hard work and diversity of many collections - mine included.

 

Please, NGC, take a mea culpa before it is too late!!!

 

And whatever you do, don't make the same foolish mistake for the US coin Registry. I love participating in the Registry, but if you do this - I promise I will unregister all my sets and leave the Registry. You have already damaged my enjoyment of the world sets. Please, from one concerned participant - fix this.

 

This is absolutely infuriating to me. I only recently joined the NGC forums and I managed to acquire the #1 Canadian Silver Type Coin Registry Set, Circulation, Strikes, with the kind help of Jerica. The set includes ONLY PCGS coins for reasons that are self-evident to many collectors. But adding my (almost exclusively PCGS) inventory to the various NGC Registry Sets has pretty much been an afterthought. Now, I have no reason to either continue my NGC membership or my participation in anything NGC-related.

 

Oh, and while I'm on a rant, how about the Incredibly Infuriating Headline:

 

"Exciting New Updates to NGC Registry"

 

"...This change will result in a better experience for collectors with World coin Registry sets."

 

How totally cavalier, NGC!

 

YA THINK? You have until Jan 31 to reverse this decision or I am DONE.

[VDBCoins]

There are several reasons for excluding PCGS coins from World Registry Sets. Unlike United States coins, there are hundreds of thousands of World types, and NGC and PCGS often use different terminology and attributions. It's become difficult to expand our Registry to include more World coin sets when they all have to account for these differences.

 

Registry users with PCGS coins have to wait for the coin to be approved to add it to a set, and the approval process can be difficult, if not impossible, for some World coins when a PCGS-graded coin's attributes do not match those of an NGC-graded coin. The process is very straightforward for US coins, but for World coins this is just not the case.

 

After examining the World Registry Set stats, we realized that only a handful of people have PCGS-only World sets, and the vast majority of World Registry users are either NGC-only or very close to it. It's a change that will make the Registry experience better for many people and will remove coins from relatively few sets.

 

There are no plans to do something like this for US coins. The changes will permit us to expand and enhance the NGC Registry for World coins, and there is not a similar concern for US coins.

 

Edited to add: Custom sets will also not be affected.

 

Max, I'm sorry but the Corporate Line does not wash, no matter how well you espouse it. It's sort of like being in a "minor layoff." It's minor only if you're not the one that got laid off. In my case I do have exclusively PCGS coins and have no intention of crossing them to NGC. And that includes the #1 Canadian Silver Type Set which I have been enjoying working on. Now it will appear on PCGS only. Good luck but this is a totally hare-brained idea.

[MorganMan]

With the risk of having my head bitten off... I don't understand the "I'm not giving NGC any more of my business" mentality. You do realize that PCGS is worse, right? They never allowed NGC coins, and still don't, in any registry sets. NGC tried it, it sounds like it's not working for World coins, and they need to make the change.

 

I'm not an NGC insider, but I am a business owner, and businesses don't voluntarily make moves which they KNOW will alienate some customers, if it isn't absolutely necessary for them to grow and expand.

 

With how busy and slow turnaround times have been lately, I don't think NGC is trying for a money grab, it doesn't sound like they need it at the moment.

 

Admittedly, I don't own any PCGS graded coins, so I don't care what NGC does, as long as I can still have my NGC coins in my NGC registry (heh), but yeah, I realize a few people are pissed at the moment, but giving your business to NGC's competitor, when the competition's rules are even more strict than NGCs, just doesn't make sense to me. If you're not willing to cross a few PCGS coins over to NGC to continue your registry set in tact, why would you be willing to cross all your NGC coins to PCGS?

 

Could not have said it better myself. NGC is gracious enough to allow PCGS coins, then when it does not work in the World registry case, everyone comes down on them! Try to remember this PCGS DOES NOT ALLOW ANY COINS IN THEIR REGISTRY SETS THAT ARE NOT THEIRS.

 

Why don't you guys go across the street and blow off about that!

 

JMHO

 

MM

[physics-fan3.14]

Why don't you guys go across the street and blow off about that!

 

I do not, have not, and will not ever participate in the Registry at PCGS, for precisely this reason.

[brg5658]

The facts are this:

 

1) The Krause Catalog is the main source of world coin indexing.

 

2) NGC partners with Krause to provide an index of all world coins and provide an online price guide. Furthermore, NGC grades all coins in the Krause Catalog and so the database record for linking or adding these coins already exists.

 

3) There may be some inconsistencies in variety attribution for World Coins between NGC and PCGS, but I can't imagine they create an impossibility of reconciliation. For US coins, NGC accepts PCGS graded FBL Franklin Halves, even though they are graded using a different standard. They also accept FT Roosies (same story), and for FS Jefferson Nickels, they have reconciled the differences by allowing PCGS coins graded FS to be added as 5FS NGC equivalents. Thus, differences can be handled.

 

4) If you still allow World Coins to be added to "Custom Sets" then the infrastructure to classify my World Coins from an index already must exist -- so why not let people use them to fill in their registry sets?

 

---------------------------

 

I'm sorry NGC (i.e., Max), but your explanation for the change simply doesn't hold water. It must, and likely is, a business move to corner the World Coin Grading market. What PCGS currently does is irrelevant to the decision at hand -- as many of us are NGC supporters for their open-mindedness and willingness to take the higher road in the first place.

 

When the decision was choosing the more inclusive and accepting Registry at NGC or the PCGS "good'ole'boys club", the choice was easy. Forcing your PAID members to choose between the two will only cause grief. This one obviously wasn't thought out very well in the staff meeting....I implore you to listen to your members.

 

Regards,

-Brandon

[VDBCoins]

With the risk of having my head bitten off... I don't understand the "I'm not giving NGC any more of my business" mentality. You do realize that PCGS is worse, right? They never allowed NGC coins, and still don't, in any registry sets. NGC tried it, it sounds like it's not working for World coins, and they need to make the change.

 

I'm not an NGC insider, but I am a business owner, and businesses don't voluntarily make moves which they KNOW will alienate some customers, if it isn't absolutely necessary for them to grow and expand.

 

With how busy and slow turnaround times have been lately, I don't think NGC is trying for a money grab, it doesn't sound like they need it at the moment.

 

Admittedly, I don't own any PCGS graded coins, so I don't care what NGC does, as long as I can still have my NGC coins in my NGC registry (heh), but yeah, I realize a few people are pissed at the moment, but giving your business to NGC's competitor, when the competition's rules are even more strict than NGCs, just doesn't make sense to me. If you're not willing to cross a few PCGS coins over to NGC to continue your registry set in tact, why would you be willing to cross all your NGC coins to PCGS?

 

Could not have said it better myself. NGC is gracious enough to allow PCGS coins, then when it does not work in the World registry case, everyone comes down on them! Try to remember this PCGS DOES NOT ALLOW ANY COINS IN THEIR REGISTRY SETS THAT ARE NOT THEIRS.

 

Why don't you guys go across the street and blow off about that!

 

JMHO

 

MM

 

The difference is, I knew that about PCGS going in. I have spent a lot of time adding coins to my NGC World Registry Sets, knowing that I could also add them to the PCGS sets. This decision is retroactive to all of my PCGS coins ... PCGS never forced me to make a choice between the two TPGs, but now NGC certainly is.

[JCM-Houston]

I have 8 or 9 number one sets in the NGC registry, and about 90% of them are NGC graded. But I really do feel like NGC has taken money off me under false pretenses. When I renewed my membership and sent in 2 additional submissions for grading in late December they already knew they were going to do this, but they took my money anyway.

 

The whole reason PCGS has never gotten a penny from me for grading is their registry set up which does not allow NGC coins. I actually collect coins, not plastic, but now that NGC wants me to collect their plastic only, and is doing it this way, I will no longer reward them for that.

 

I will simply drop out of the registry after the 30th and people can visit my web sites if they have any interest in viewing my coins.

[Z16Z06]

95% of my coins are in NGC holders but I am still very disappointed with NGC’s decision to remove the PCGS coins from the World sets. For me this only impacts one of my sets and I will most likely still be ranked #1 but what will I do with the PCGS coins? Many have stated that we can simply have them cross graded but I’ve already tried that and found out the hard way that many will not cross over at the same or higher grade. Do I cross grade anyway and devalue the coins just so I can have a complete set in NGC holders? I don’t think so. I hope NGC will read these postings, listen to their customers, and reconsider their decision. It’s not too late to do the right thing!

[jom]

Why don't you guys go across the street and blow off about that!

 

I do not, have not, and will not ever participate in the Registry at PCGS, for precisely this reason.

 

With ya 100%. I have ONE set listed on NGC and that's it. I've never bothered with this until very recently. I went NGC because they allow both services and because I'd never EVER send a coin into a service just to put that coin a registry. That's not money well spent for me.

 

jom

[Brol]

Why don't you guys go across the street and blow off about that!

 

I do not, have not, and will not ever participate in the Registry at PCGS, for precisely this reason.

 

With ya 100%. I have ONE set listed on NGC and that's it. I've never bothered with this until very recently. I went NGC because they allow both services and because I'd never EVER send a coin into a service just to put that coin a registry. That's not money well spent for me.

 

jom

 

+1

 

Account Type: Paid Account

Expiration Date: 2/3/2012

 

I will not renew my NGC membership this year, because I just have a one set and my set will be gone after January 31st.

 

Bye NGC registry!

 

[physics-fan3.14]

While I can believe that for the most part, the members of the forum are far more vocal than others - I cannot believe that many participants are in favor of this move. Especially with the OVERWHELMING NEGATIVE response this has garnered.

[Six Mile Rick]

I do not think this decision was even made in the USA. NGC is competing for business in foreign countries so thus the decision was made. It has nothing to do with customer profits here in the US but will affect collectors world sets. NGC is not just serving us, they are adjusting for foreign competition with PCGS in other countries.

 

LOOKING OUTSIDE THE BOX------Rick

[wybrit-migration]

There are several reasons for excluding PCGS coins from World Registry Sets. Unlike United States coins, there are hundreds of thousands of World types, and NGC and PCGS often use different terminology and attributions. It's become difficult to expand our Registry to include more World coin sets when they all have to account for these differences.

 

Registry users with PCGS coins have to wait for the coin to be approved to add it to a set, and the approval process can be difficult, if not impossible, for some World coins when a PCGS-graded coin's attributes do not match those of an NGC-graded coin. The process is very straightforward for US coins, but for World coins this is just not the case.

 

After examining the World Registry Set stats, we realized that only a handful of people have PCGS-only World sets, and the vast majority of World Registry users are either NGC-only or very close to it. It's a change that will make the Registry experience better for many people and will remove coins from relatively few sets.

 

Law of unintended consequences: people are already bailing from the NGC regsitry as I write this. I have 18 #1 sets in the British coin areas, and yes, a majority of the coins are PCGS. That said, the reason I renewed my NGC membership after a lapse, and submitted several of my coins there in 2011, was because of the well-constructed registry. In April, my membership will expire and there is no reason for me to return unless this ridiculous decision is reversed. Like many others, I will withdraw all of my entries, including my NGC pieces.

 

You could have made the attempt to develop some innovative solutions to your problem, but instead, you chose the lowest common denominator solution and slammed the door shut.

 

"It's hard" has never been an excuse where I work. It should not be so here either.

[mailman1959]

I am sure the number crunchers have already done the math. It was a bottom line figure they were looking at, taking into account their time involved in the process. There's really only two places to go and they felt secure enough to make the change. I am also sure they have taken into account a percentage of customers leaving and the loss of revenue. With gold and silver always being in the headlines they're not worried about their customer base. Look at all the different labels and the complaints on that. What did they do? First Release.....

[jom]

While I can believe that for the most part, the members of the forum are far more vocal than others - I cannot believe that many participants are in favor of this move. Especially with the OVERWHELMING NEGATIVE response this has garnered.

 

You're right. Personally, since I don't really have but one or two foreign coins, I don't have a stake in this. It IS disappointing that NGC would do this...because I thought they were above this kind of thing. This is clearly something PCGS would do....why does NGC want to mirror this?

 

jom

[Hard Times]

I received a message from someone here who said that 'most NGC members will continue to pay fees and will pay to have their PCGS coins crossed over' and that 'the message boards are not representative of the customers NGC is looking to serve'.

 

Does this mean they are looking more at overseas markets?

 

Statements like this really bother me. I have no regrets. Goodbye NGC!

 

The reality is that NGC is a for profit buisness, they have given a free pass for a long time on this issue to PCGS coins, whereas PCGS has in its arrogance snuffed NGC coins in their Registry, creating a whole group of folks ATS that think for some crazy reason that the holder matters as much, or possibly, more, than the coins in them. NGC must think that is affecting their buisness or they would have never done this.

 

NGC is allowing everyone here to express their opinions..... Yep that is it, NGC is out of here (that is a joke ha ha).

 

Folks it is not like NGC is taking your PCGS coins from you, so for someone like me, who is not at all interested in competing with others for points for the coins I collect, I simply don't get this unhappiness. Hey neither of these TPG's is perfect, but without them, things would be much worse. JMHO

[Hard Times]

I received a message from someone here who said that 'most NGC members will continue to pay fees and will pay to have their PCGS coins crossed over' and that 'the message boards are not representative of the customers NGC is looking to serve'.

 

Does this mean they are looking more at overseas markets?

 

Statements like this really bother me. I have no regrets. Goodbye NGC!

 

The reality is that NGC is a for profit buisness, they have given a free pass for a long time on this issue to PCGS coins, whereas PCGS has in its arrogance snuffed NGC coins in their Registry, creating a whole group of folks ATS that think for some crazy reason that the holder matters as much, or possibly, more, than the coins in them. NGC must think that is affecting their buisness or they would have never done this.

 

NGC is allowing everyone here to express their opinions..... Yep that is it, NGC is out of here (that is a joke ha ha).

 

Folks it is not like NGC is taking your PCGS coins from you, so for someone like me, who is not at all interested in competing with others for points for the coins I collect, I simply don't get this unhappiness. Hey neither of these TPG's is perfect, but without them, things would be much worse. JMHO

 

One day maybe they'll put a chip in the holder for verification purposes, and they'll say 'only chipped holders can be included in the registry'

 

We'll see if you feel the same when the changes affect your collection.

 

Won't affect my collection, dude you are getting out of hand, why not take a break - you have started 4 threads to protest/berate NGC, I think they got it and you are not serving your purpose to keep going ballistic, you are only making your position worse, JMHO ........

 

[Schatzy]

I don't understand people, maybe I am the only one that collection coins because I enjoy the hobby.

NGC could delete all of my sets and I would continue to keep building my sets. I don't collect

for the points or the awards. Sometimes I think that a lot of people only collect for the quest to be

#1 in the registry. Reading the post so far really made me think that some people collect for the wrong reasons.

[Schatzy]

Goodbye NGC!

 

Bye!!

 

One day maybe they'll put a chip in the holder for verification purposes, and they'll say 'only chipped holders can be included in the registry'

 

We'll see if you feel the same when the changes affect your collection.

 

Wouldn't affect me any!! I collect coins for me and not for a registry!!

[coinsbygary]

If there’s anything I cannot stand is changing the rules in the middle of the game. It’s like if I can’t win, let's change the rules until I win. All along, we’ve been told that our PCGS coins are welcome in the NGC registry, but now I’m treated as a 2nd class citizen because I have PCGS coins in an NGC registry. Granted, it is an NGC registry, and I’ve always felt a set populated with more than 50 % NGC coins should have some kind of preferential treatment, but this is over the edge.

 

If NGC wants to change registry policy, then as suggested by other collectors on the boards, existing PCGS coins could be grandfathered or some sort of gradual weaning policy maybe instituted, but a drop-dead date of January 31. You have got to be kidding. At any rate, I am disappointed by this move, and I am suspicious of NGC’s motives.

 

Fortunately, this policy change only affects two of my world sets, “Gary’s Golden Wilhelmina Guldens and Gary’s Britannia’s." The Wilhelmina set was created as a whole and this new policy will break up the owner descriptions. Three of eleven coins in this set are PCGS, but each of these coins is significant. The MS-63 1898 is rare and hard to locate; the MS-65 1911 is graded at my set goal, and the MS-67 1917 is the highest-grade coin in the set. For the Britannia set; five of 14 coins are PCGS, but the lone MS-70 in this set is PCGS. The question now is “where do I go from here”?

 

What I can say is that I am proud of both these sets, PCGS coins and all, and that they need to be displayed. The Wilhelmina and Britannia sets are among the best in the world and what NGC does with their registry does not change that one iota. PCGS and NGC are the top third-party graders, and I am not crossing over my PCGS coins to fit a NGC registry. If only I knew how to design a web page to display my sets there, I would. I can’t go over to PCGS because I run into the same problem. So what do I do?

 

When the change is instituted, I am moving both these sets to the “custom” side of the registry where I am told PCGS coins are still welcome. I will leave my registry sets as placeholders for the eligible coins and place a link in the set description to the corresponding custom set. This way I can display my sets as a whole.

 

I may not win many awards, but that does not change the fact that I am proud of the sets I have created. In the future when I upgrade the coins in either of these sets, I will buy NGC coins only. In spite of the changes coming, I still prefer NGC graded world coins.

 

In the end, when you get right down to it, it’s not about the registry or the plastic, but about the coins. If you have a set that you are proud of, you don’t need a registry to tell you that, so happy collecting!

Gary

 

[MJ]

I do not participate in the registry arena so please take this with a grain of salt.

 

If NGC is making this move because of inconsistancy standards/attributes between the two services why not do this---

 

Discount PCGS registry coins by 5%,10% or 20% to their like NGC peers. NGC coins are rewarded/referenced and PCGS coins can continue to participate in the NGC Registry.

 

Just a thought.

 

MJ

[Dcoin]

I have no horse in this race, but....

 

I really have to give kudos to NGC for allowing the discussion to take place here. In other boards, the red button would have been pressed and many posters would be looking for a new board.

[coinman_23885]

I do not participate in the registry arena so please take this with a grain of salt.

 

If NGC is making this move because of inconsistancy standards/attributes between the two services why not do this---

 

Discount PCGS registry coins by 5%,10% or 20% to their like NGC peers. NGC coins are rewarded/referenced and PCGS coins can continue to participate in the NGC Registry.

 

Just a thought.

 

MJ

 

I would think that many of those affected would probably still be upset. While I understand the frustration, I'm not convinced, as are many of my posters, that this is all a money grab. World coins are so diverse and there are so many varieties that I can see NGC's point. In fairness, I will disclose that I don't have any world registry sets.

[physics-fan3.14]

I have no horse in this race, but....

 

I really have to give kudos to NGC for allowing the discussion to take place here. In other boards, the red button would have been pressed and many posters would be looking for a new board.

 

Yet another reason that I am here instead of there.

 

Normally, NGC's customer service is superb. Let's hope they listen to us, and change their minds on this issue before its too late.