NGC TO REMOVE PCGS COINS FROM WORLD REGISTRY

[physics-fan3.14]

I know there are several threads about this in various places, but this absolutely deserves one more. NGC is planning to remove PCGS coins from World Registry sets, and make them all NGC exclusive.

 

NGC, THIS IS A TERRIBLE IDEA!!!! Who thought of this? One of the big reasons that I choose to participate in the NGC Registry instead of the other one is that you are willing to accept both NGC and PCGS. Excluding half of the collector population has never been your goal - why the sudden change? Please, reverse this terrible decision before it is too late.

 

There has been talk about NGC only sets for a while, that they will receive a bonus or be somehow set apart. I never in my life thought that would mean you would be excluding PCGS coins. I understand that NGC is far more popular, and a far better service, than PCGS when it comes to the foreign stuff. But to exclude all those coins is to deny the hard work and diversity of many collections - mine included.

 

Please, NGC, take a mea culpa before it is too late!!!

 

And whatever you do, don't make the same foolish mistake for the US coin Registry. I love participating in the Registry, but if you do this - I promise I will unregister all my sets and leave the Registry. You have already damaged my enjoyment of the world sets. Please, from one concerned participant - fix this.

[JIM F.]

I know there are several threads about this in various places, but this absolutely deserves one more. NGC is planning to remove PCGS coins from World Registry sets, and make them all NGC exclusive.

 

NGC, THIS IS A TERRIBLE IDEA!!!! Who thought of this? One of the big reasons that I choose to participate in the NGC Registry instead of the other one is that you are willing to accept both NGC and PCGS. Excluding half of the collector population has never been your goal - why the sudden change? Please, reverse this terrible decision before it is too late.

 

There has been talk about NGC only sets for a while, that they will receive a bonus or be somehow set apart. I never in my life thought that would mean you would be excluding PCGS coins. I understand that NGC is far more popular, and a far better service, than PCGS when it comes to the foreign stuff. But to exclude all those coins is to deny the hard work and diversity of many collections - mine included.

 

Please, NGC, take a mea culpa before it is too late!!!

 

And whatever you do, don't make the same foolish mistake for the US coin Registry. I love participating in the Registry, but if you do this - I promise I will unregister all my sets and leave the Registry. You have already damaged my enjoyment of the world sets. Please, from one concerned participant - fix this.

 

I agree 100%. Whoever came up with this idea at NGC should be fired.

[BillJones]

I hope this idea does not extend to U.S. coins. If it does, I'm gone, and I think that the NGC registry will be the poorer for it. I've spent a lot of time photographing and doing a write-up for every U.S. type from the half cent to the Pan Pac $50 gold. I think that I have contributed a lot to the registry in the way of education.

 

Please don't remove the PCGS coin from the NGC registry, NGC. If you do you will be no better than PCGS which acts like a bunch of snobs too much of the time.

[CSdot]

This site's ability to accept both top TPG was welcoming and inspired me to work on several new sets, including several US Type sets and two gold sets. As I prefer NGC grading of US gold, this change may not negatively affect me there, but my US type sets are mixed, so any change will cause me to reevaluate my registries here, and wil negatively influence my newly found passion for slabbed coins.

 

I don't know much about the grading of non US coins so I will withhold comment there, but hopefully the rules related to US coins will remain the same and both top tier TPG slabs will continue to be allowed.

 

Thanks.

[Conder101]

OK who at NGC has started drinking Kool-aid? (We must be more like PCGS)

[brg5658]

It wasn't clear to me whether they would still allow PCGS graded non-USA coins in the custom sets? Even if they do, it's still the WRONG idea to limit the world sets to NGC only coins.

 

NGC, don't do it. You have a lot of us here because you allow PCGS and NGC coins. Don't turn into an exclusive club like PCGS has, I don't think that benefits anyone.

 

Another question, WHY would they make this decision without asking the members first? I don't know of ANYONE who has a world registry set that would agree with this decision. And, if the coin description is already in the Krause-updated database, I don't understand the reasoning behind this move. Maybe because there is no reason....

 

[brg5658]

ON a possibly related note, it has been noticed that Jerica is no longer a registered member here. Are these two "moves" related? I have the pit-in-my-stomach feeling that something is going down that we're not going to like....

 

[Max Spiegel]

There are several reasons for excluding PCGS coins from World Registry Sets. Unlike United States coins, there are hundreds of thousands of World types, and NGC and PCGS often use different terminology and attributions. It's become difficult to expand our Registry to include more World coin sets when they all have to account for these differences.

 

Registry users with PCGS coins have to wait for the coin to be approved to add it to a set, and the approval process can be difficult, if not impossible, for some World coins when a PCGS-graded coin's attributes do not match those of an NGC-graded coin. The process is very straightforward for US coins, but for World coins this is just not the case.

 

After examining the World Registry Set stats, we realized that only a handful of people have PCGS-only World sets, and the vast majority of World Registry users are either NGC-only or very close to it. It's a change that will make the Registry experience better for many people and will remove coins from relatively few sets.

 

There are no plans to do something like this for US coins. The changes will permit us to expand and enhance the NGC Registry for World coins, and there is not a similar concern for US coins.

 

Edited to add: Custom sets will also not be affected.

[Lastufka Collection]

My opinion (not that anyone asked for it), is that PCGS coins should be allowed in all sets, but that NGC coins should have a single registry point boost over same graded PCGS coins.

 

For example, if a PF 70 UC dollar is worth 908 points, than the PCGS PR 70 UC should be worth 907 points.

 

This way, if you and I have identically graded sets, but mine are all NGC graded, I would have the #1 set, while you have the #2 set, on the NGC website. But your set would still be a ton of points higher than someone with lower graded coins, regardless of their TPG.

[Chris1976]

While I can understand the frustration of the given situation, I can also see NGC's resoning for the change. The registry rewards program offered by NGC should (in my opinion) reward those individuals that support NGC's services. I too have several sets that have higher percentage of PCGS coins included in them but I am not upset about the proposed changes simply because I feel that if NGC is issuing awards for completed sets, then those sets should consist of NGC's products only. My standing on this could be due to the fact that none of my coins are worth the crossover fee's and are easily found in the same grades from NGC as the ones I currently own in PCGS holders. Again these are just my thoughts and no one as to agree with me about them.

[Chris1976]

No one is forcing you to cross them over, in fact NGC does not accept Mint State or Proof coins graded 70 for crossovers anyhow. Even though they say "you have 15 days to cross them over" in reality you still have the full year to cross them, but they may not show in the registry after those 15 days from the initital change. Whether they allow the change quick or slow does not matter, in reality you still have until the end of the year to get your sets completed with NGC certified coins instead of being mixed with PCGS.

[JIM F.]

Those who have a 50/50 mix of NGC and PCGS graded coins may cross the NGC coins to PCGS. That would make sense especially if the collector does not want to remove coins from the old PCGS holders.

 

It is obvious that this proposed move by NGC is unpopular. We'll see if NGC really wants to help promote the collector or not.

 

 

 

 

[cpm9ball]

...........It's become difficult to expand our Registry to include more World coin sets when they all have to account for these differences..........

 

...........After examining the World Registry Set stats, we realized that only a handful of people have PCGS-only World sets, and the vast majority of World Registry users are either NGC-only or very close to it............

 

NOTE: Since I don't participate in any registry program, anywhere, I think that my observations and comments are unbiased.

 

Max,

 

Above you have stated that it is difficult to account for the differences, but at the same time you state that the PCGS-only sets represent a small fraction of all of the sets. If this is the case, then it doesn't make sense that this is such an overwhelming problem.

 

One of the things I've noted on other coin forums is that a large number of those people who are considering joining a registry almost always say that they will enter the NGC Registry simply because NGC will accept both NGC & PCGS coins. I realize that this policy change affects only World sets, but I think you would be turning away a goodly number of potential customers who may choose, at some future time, to submit additions to NGC for grading.

 

In a way, it's like the grocery chain that continually advertises a "loss-leader" to lure customers in knowing that they will buy other products. I think that NGC is making a big mistake.

 

Chris

[brg5658]

There are several reasons for excluding PCGS coins from World Registry Sets. Unlike United States coins, there are hundreds of thousands of World types, and NGC and PCGS often use different terminology and attributions. It's become difficult to expand our Registry to include more World coin sets when they all have to account for these differences.

 

Registry users with PCGS coins have to wait for the coin to be approved to add it to a set, and the approval process can be difficult, if not impossible, for some World coins when a PCGS-graded coin's attributes do not match those of an NGC-graded coin. The process is very straightforward for US coins, but for World coins this is just not the case.

 

After examining the World Registry Set stats, we realized that only a handful of people have PCGS-only World sets, and the vast majority of World Registry users are either NGC-only or very close to it. It's a change that will make the Registry experience better for many people and will remove coins from relatively few sets.

 

There are no plans to do something like this for US coins. The changes will permit us to expand and enhance the NGC Registry for World coins, and there is not a similar concern for US coins.

 

I'm confused. Either a coin is or is not in the Krause publication, and that is the source NGC uses to populate the valid coins for sets, correct? Thus, it's no extra work to allow PCGS coins to fill a spot for a coin in the Krause catalog...as far as I can tell. The only work would be the process of verifying the coin on PCGS website, which someone is already doing for US coins anyway. So, I don't get what makes World coins so different from US Coins.

 

Also, Max can you comment on whether this will affect the ability of PCGS graded world coins to be entered into Custom Sets? About 30% of my horses themed set (Most Creative Set of 2011) is PCGS graded, many of those coins having NGC populations of zero, or only lower graded examples.

 

I still think it's a pity. Many of us pride ourselves by being avid NGC Registry Supporters because of the inclusive approach they had taken. Now, for World Coin Registry Sets, we are relegated to exclusive little clubs like the guys ATS.

 

Thanks,

-Brandon

[johnny9434]

How sad to read that they are doing that. Both are good companies and I agree it should not be done. I wonder if PCGS might go start thier own thing like NGC does here?

[JIM F.]

I think it would be ironic if PCGS starts allowing NGC graded coins in their world registry sets! Now that would really create mutiny!

 

 

[Crohnos01]

...........It's become difficult to expand our Registry to include more World coin sets when they all have to account for these differences..........

 

...........After examining the World Registry Set stats, we realized that only a handful of people have PCGS-only World sets, and the vast majority of World Registry users are either NGC-only or very close to it............

 

NOTE: Since I don't participate in any registry program, anywhere, I think that my observations and comments are unbiased.

 

Max,

 

Above you have stated that it is difficult to account for the differences, but at the same time you state that the PCGS-only sets represent a small fraction of all of the sets. If this is the case, then it doesn't make sense that this is such an overwhelming problem.

 

One of the things I've noted on other coin forums is that a large number of those people who are considering joining a registry almost always say that they will enter the NGC Registry simply because NGC will accept both NGC & PCGS coins. I realize that this policy change affects only World sets, but I think you would be turning away a goodly number of potential customers who may choose, at some future time, to submit additions to NGC for grading.

 

In a way, it's like the grocery chain that continually advertises a "loss-leader" to lure customers in knowing that they will buy other products. I think that NGC is making a big mistake.

 

Chris

 

I like Chris don't have a dog in the fight on this issue, but it seems like it doesn't help collectors advance the hobby. I couldn't have said it better than Chris. Put me down as a +1

[DunderChief-migration]

From a newbe, I joined the registry because it did accept both TPG's slabs. I would think that it has increased the traffic on their website which was stated earlier that it is a great marketing tool. It brought me here.

[BruceTucson]

No problem for me, I don't use PCGS. It will hurt others here and that's not good.

[TwoKopeiki]

Terrible idea. Please reconsider this move.

[physics-fan3.14]

NGC - It's not too late. Show that you listen to us, and retract this statement. Yeah, you're going to have mud in your eye. Yeah, you're going to suffer a bit - but, a quick and well-considered reversal is going to prevent further damage. Just look at Netflix - they hastily reconsidered some bad decisions, issued a statement, and only suffered a bit.

 

Don't alienate a significant portion of your collector base.

[jackson64]

Please visit any of my 6 #1 ranked world sets before Jan. 31st, 2012...after that all of my World Coin sets and even award winning Signature Set with PCGS world coins shall be removed...

 

.......total money grab and a ridiculous excuse. We're not fools-- this is all about crossover fees and cornering the World Certification market--this is why monopolies were seriously opposed by our founding fathers.

 

We've had a two-headed monopoly for quite a while with bullying policies like:

 

A) Adding new account levels and calling what used to be part of a standard membership a "Premium Account" and extra money for the same services.........

 

B) Ridiculous turn-around times. No other business or service company ( and in the end NGC is nothing more than a service industry like your car repair, rug cleaners, your Tuesday maid or oil change guy) would dare postpone delivery of your promised services for weeks and/or months with barely a posted notice-while they hold onto thousands of dollars worth of your possesions. Then they return your property to you at their convenience without even an apology, coupon or reimbursement ( and charge you shipping both ways to boot!--for higher than their postage costs !!)

 

C) The ridiculous money-grubbing label scheme. The very producers of the coins themselves- The US MINT !! has declared that there is no way to determine first strike and that actually, the way that the inventory is stacked after production before shipping- that the first minted coins are often the last shipped because they end up on the bottom of thre pile. Anniversary labels or special commem labels -fine ( but $20 extra bucks for a mass produced 1 1/2C piece of paper?)

 

I may be done with the whole registry--I'll miss so many of you whom I have gotten to know better than just your coin interests but the arrogance and ego of this. Not the discluding of PCGS coins, that really ticks me off and will lead me to removal of all world sets the day it is done...the ego and arrogance is in the ridiculous excuse. This is a blatant money-move and I for one am not naive enough to drink from this ladel of kool-aid.

 

The issue of PCGS differences in varieties is simple to address--NGC just recognizes their own and a PCGS coin can be used but not given variety attribution in the registry--simple--the coin would get the basic score of a non-variety. Or God forbid that NGC may actually just hire a $30K employee from the millions of unemployed and have that person handle the few instances of PCGS/NGC differences on world coins on a case by case basis.........maybe he can start training on grading in the meantime and cut the months of turnaround for those, "EARLYBIRD" submissions--( you know earlybird, it's when it takes 3x longer than the promised turnaround for the cheaper tier but they still keep your money !!).........

 

[TwoKopeiki]

Alternatively, to show that you're not just doing it for a quick cash grab, why not offer a free cross-over period on all PCGS coins currently registered? THAT would at least show that you care about customer experience and loyalty.

[jackson64]

Alternatively, to show that you're not just doing it for a quick cash grab, why not offer a free cross-over period on all PCGS coins currently registered? THAT would at least show that you care about customer experience and loyalty.

 

 

hilarious...and the US taxpayers will get back our $880 billion because there were no shovel ready jobs.......

[TwoKopeiki]

Alternatively, to show that you're not just doing it for a quick cash grab, why not offer a free cross-over period on all PCGS coins currently registered? THAT would at least show that you care about customer experience and loyalty.

 

 

hilarious...and the US taxpayers will get back our $880 billion because there were no shovel ready jobs.......

 

I'm glad that your government conditioned you to enjoy being screwed. As an educated consumer, however, I just stop using products and services of a company that sends a clear message that your customer satisfaction is not one of their top priorities.

[jackson64]

Their market research suggests that they'll make more $$ by implementing these changes. It is too bad.

 

Those who keep their registry sets will have to suck it up and pay the extra $$.

 

Their market research is WAAAAAYYYY off.... I have already spoken via email and PM with almost 10 people who have vowed to never crossover their PCGS slabs...why pay $30, wait months for the privelege of having your coin in a slab that will sell for less on the resale market?

 

I've been loyal to NGC for years with registry, chat boards and submissions --but I'm not a homer enough to not admit that PCGS slabs sell for more money on the market--by 12% on average. Not to mention we'd be assuming that NGC would even cross the coin.

 

Often a person has to submit the coin 2 or 3 times before it comes back graded instead of details graded or the bodybags of before.

[mtnstyne]

This is a great opportunity for NGC to make more money from their customer base.

 

Unfortunately, people lose their brand loyalty. As long as they can make enough money to cover all the collectors that leave, than in their mind, it is worth it.

 

If my cell phone company kept raising call rates, telling me to buy new phones, etc etc I'd cut and run.

 

All companies forget what got them where they are eventually. Look what happened to Netflix...forgot that the customers where the ones paying the bills.

 

It's always down to the risks the business is willing to take and that's the bottom line. I am guessing they have weighed how much they think they will make vs how much risk they will lose in brand loyalty.

[CSdot]

Any chance this move was made for the benefit of collectors? I don't know the first thing about slabbed foreign coins, but was there any discussion of the other TPG company not doing quality work in that area? I know the other TPG generally does good work when it comes to US coins, so I would expect there would be no customer centric reason to make a similar change in the US registry sets.

[coin928]

Max,

 

Are the USA/Philippines sets considered to be US Coins or World coins with respect to this change?

 

Thanks,

Coin928

[JCM-Houston]

I currently have about 9 sets ranked #1, but after the 30th they will all go away. I've spent a bit of money with NGC because they allowed me to put the 10% of my coins that are in PCGS holders into my sets, unlike the completely absurd PCGS rules, so in order to reward behaviour which seemed to be customer focused they got all my grading money.

 

That's now finished, I will absolutely not spend one more dollar with NGC. They have 2 submissions in for grading now, and I have about 14 coins ready to go in next month.

 

THEY WILL NOT GO TO A GRADING COMPANY IN FLORIDA THIS TIME.

 

I WILL NOT PAY TO HAVE MY COINS CROSSED OVER TO NGC JUST TO PLAY IN THE REGISTRY.

 

In the future anyone who has an interest in my collections that visit them at:

 

British Collection

Rest of the World