PCI holders...

[noow]

I've heard some claims that old green PCI holders have accurate, consistant grades on them more so than now. Anyone care to shine some light on this?

[PerryHall]

The early PCI slabs with the green bordered labels were conservatively graded but there are some exceptions as there are with all grading services.

[coinman_23885]

The early PCI slabs with the green bordered labels were conservatively graded but there are some exceptions as there are with all grading services.

 

The 10 and 14(?) digit old green holders tended to be more conservative. The 9 digit green slabs, like their gold label counterparts have been less conservative in my experience. Also, if you are looking at the old holders, be careful of the number of counterfeits out there. Look for breaks in the border on the reverse. Most of the faked old PCI labs have a gaping discontinuity.

 

[ldhair]

When they were doing the old green 10 digit holders, I thought they were doing a great job. Past that I lost all faith and my opinion changes from coin to coin.

[PerryHall]

The early PCI slabs with the green bordered labels were conservatively graded but there are some exceptions as there are with all grading services.

 

The 10 and 14(?) digit old green holders tended to be more conservative. The 9 digit green slabs, like their gold label counterparts have been less conservative in my experience. Also, if you are looking at the old holders, be careful of the number of counterfeits out their. Look for breaks in the border on the reverse. Most of the faked old PCI labs have a gaping discontinuity.

 

I didn't realize that PCI slabs have been counterfeited. Thanks for the information. The 10 digit green label slabs were the earliest and were the most conservative while the 14 digit green label slabs were less conservative and need to be evaluated on a case by case basis. The 9 digit green slabs and the gold label slabs were generally graded quite liberally and should be treated as raw coins. The changing grading standards are a result of changes in the ownership of PCI. The earliest large photo slabs are rarely seen anymore and are a neat collectible in their own right.

[coinman_23885]

I didn't realize that PCI slabs have been counterfeited. Thanks for the information. .

 

There appears to be a flood of them on eBay, and it is believed that they originated from a certain eBay seller or two. Now multiple sellers are offering these coins (and most of them are probably unaware of the underlying issues themselves). Most of the coins in these holders are better dates, and most of them that I have seen are either clearly problem coins (especially cleaning and/or whizzing). Also, some of them are clearly AU coins. Every now and then, a convincing example (probably from juiced photos) appears online.

[ldhair]

From what I understand, someone bought the PCI name and started making 10 digit holders again. Not sure that makes them fake but I may not have caught all of the story.

[messydesk]

The font on the more desirable PCI slabs is closest to, but not exactly, Century Gothic. The font on the later ones is Arial. There is also microprinting on the back that doesn't reproduce well on the current reincarnation.

 

I have a few boxes of these from way back when. Of 12 coins I've sent to PCGS recently, all have crossed, many have upgraded.

[Conder101]

The early PCI slabs with the green bordered labels were conservatively graded

I wouldn't say conservative, I'd say accurately. and that only holds for the 10 digit serial numbers. Once they went to the 14 digit they started slipping some and the 9 digit numbers should be treated as raw coins.

 

From what I understand, someone bought the PCI name and started making 10 digit holders again. Not sure that makes them fake but I may not have caught all of the story.

That is correct. When DGS closed down they sold off the shells and equipment and the new owner began making 10 digit slabs again. Someone was selling them on ebay as original, old PCI slabs, but the font doesn't match the original 10 digit slabs. Since then PCI has gone out of business again and the last I knew the owner was trying to find a new buyer.

[PerryHall]

The early PCI slabs with the green bordered labels were conservatively graded

I wouldn't say conservative, I'd say accurately. and that only holds for the 10 digit serial numbers. Once they went to the 14 digit they started slipping some and the 9 digit numbers should be treated as raw coins.

 

From what I understand, someone bought the PCI name and started making 10 digit holders again. Not sure that makes them fake but I may not have caught all of the story.

That is correct. When DGS closed down they sold off the shells and equipment and the new owner began making 10 digit slabs again. Someone was selling them on ebay as original, old PCI slabs, but the font doesn't match the original 10 digit slabs. Since then PCI has gone out of business again and the last I knew the owner was trying to find a new buyer.

 

Seems like PCI has more lives than a cat.

[BillJones]

I never noticed how many digits there were in the serial number, but from the old green label PCI holders that I saw, the word "inconsistent" was more apt than “conservative.” People claimed they got PCI graded coins to up grade when they cracked them and sent the coins to PCGS, but you had to know which coins would work and which ones would not work. You just couldn’t to a “bulk” crack and re-submit action with all PCI holders.

[PerryHall]

I never noticed how many digits there were in the serial number, but from the old green label PCI holders that I saw, the word "inconsistent" was more apt than conservative. People claimed they got PCI graded coins to up grade when they cracked them and sent the coins to PCGS, but you had to know which coins would work and which ones would not work. You just couldnt to a bulk crack and re-submit action with all PCI holders.

 

The green label PCI coins were graded under the management of three different owners which would explain any inconsistencies. Fortunately, each owner used a different number of digits in the serial number (10, 14, and finally 9) making it easy to determine each change in ownership.

[ldhair]

I wonder who the owner was when they were doing the 10 digits?

[Conder101]

Chattanooga Coin and Stamp Co. Don't know the principal owners name. They owned the company when it was known as Photo-Certified Coin Institute and they used large sized photocertificate slabs that they licensed from Accugrade. (PCCI began operations in 1986)

 

Then in 1991 they bought out the supplies, shells etc from HALLMARK grading service owned by Q David Bowers et al. and it just became the 10 digit green label PCI slabs. I am not aware of a change of ownership between the 10 and 14 digit slabs, but there was a change between the 14 and 9 digit slabs. That was when the company was sold to Leslie Slade in Sept 2001.

 

Slade sold PCI to Brian Beardsley in March of 2002. The 9 digit serial numbers probably lasted a little while longer but Brian switched over to the wide gold or red borders (No problem and problem coins respectively) and eventually dropped the red borders.(but didn't stop slabbing the problem coins. They were put in the same green border slabs but the problems were NOT mentioned.) When Brian died his wife tried to take over the company and it continued for about another year before it ceased operating in late 2007.

 

In Feb 2008 the company, shells, supplies etc were purchased by David Lawrence Rare Coin and in April 2008 it was relaunched as DGS. DGS lasted until Aug 2010. The company was again sold (Sorry don't have owners name at my fingertips) and it reopened as PCI with the old green labels and 10 digit serieal numbers (but with a different font) but only lasted until about Oct or November of 2010.

 

At that time they started looking for a new buyer for the company but I am unaware of any changes in PCI since that time.

[RGT]

I think you may mean the wide "gold" and red borders when they switched to the solid borders. I don't recall ever seeing the solid borders in green. But it's understandable that you might miss that.

 

[ldhair]

Thanks Conder.

[Conder101]

Thanks for catching that error, I got it corrected in the post. Gold borders not green.