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My first real coin sale..... posted by Kamakazy

21 posts in this topic

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Sellers remorse.

 

I knew eventually I would have to start churning some of my duplicates and excess out to start completing sets and getting up to that "next" level of obsession.

 

A neighbor of mine with whom I am good friends asked me if I had any extra silver eagles that he could buy as he wants to have some silver "just in case".

 

So, today I sold him 10 raw silver eagles. Quick $400.00 and I more than doubled up on the sale and can buy a couple of things I really want! A 2008W reverse 07 UNC eagle and a 2000 millennium eagle are needed for my competitive set and I will use the $ to get one or the other, perhaps both if I find an exceptional deal.

 

That being said, I actually have sellers remorse as those were some of my first eagle purchases when I was younger......much, much, much younger and though I am sad to see them go just for a bullion hedge, I am sure I will enjoy getting two coins I really want!

 

Cheers!

 

Kamakazy

 

P.S. As a couple of you already know, I cracked the 1878 7TF from the ICG case and have sent to NGC for a VAM 84a designation and I am predicting an MS 64 or 65 on the grade.

 

See more journals by Kamakazy

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That being said, I actually have sellers remorse as those were some of my first eagle purchases when I was younger......much, much, much younger

 

I recently started collecting coins, and I have a feeling that that will be my main problem. I tend to hold on to things and display them either electronically or physically on a shelf or on my desk.

 

I'm not a hoarder (not that I am aware of - shoot, I might be.... no.... not me). I'm way to organized to be a hoarder. :screwy:

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A neighbor of mine with whom I am good friends asked me if I had any extra silver eagles that he could buy as he wants to have some silver "just in case".

 

lol Just in case what? If there is a massive financial meltdown, does he think that he will be able to buy bread and rice with silver rounds??

 

If you are buying huge quantities of precious metals as a hedge (gamble) against inflation and the devaluation of the US Dollar, that is one thing. But having 10 ASEs in your sock drawer "just in case" doesn't really make sense to me. But, in this case it's good for you -- now you have $400 to spend on true historic numismatic items!!!

 

I will leave you with a quote from Warren Buffett, originally in reference to Gold, but just as relevant to any precious metal:

 

“Gold is a way of going long on fear, and it has been a pretty good way of going long on fear from time to time. But you really have to hope people become more afraid in a year or two years than they are now. And if they become more afraid you make money, if they become less afraid you lose money, but the gold itself doesn’t produce anything.

 

[Gold] gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head.”

 

-- Warren Buffett, March 2011

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A neighbor of mine with whom I am good friends asked me if I had any extra silver eagles that he could buy as he wants to have some silver "just in case".

 

lol Just in case what? If there is a massive financial meltdown, does he think that he will be able to buy bread and rice with silver rounds??

 

If you are buying huge quantities of precious metals as a hedge (gamble) against inflation and the devaluation of the US Dollar, that is one thing. But having 10 ASEs in your sock drawer "just in case" doesn't really make sense to me. But, in this case it's good for you -- now you have $400 to spend on true historic numismatic items!!!

 

I will leave you with a quote from Warren Buffett, originally in reference to Gold, but just as relevant to any precious metal:

 

“Gold is a way of going long on fear, and it has been a pretty good way of going long on fear from time to time. But you really have to hope people become more afraid in a year or two years than they are now. And if they become more afraid you make money, if they become less afraid you lose money, but the gold itself doesn’t produce anything.

 

[Gold] gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head.”

 

-- Warren Buffett, March 2011

 

How about Platinum & Rhodium?

 

They are used extensively in many industries, especially catalysts.

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Also, technically, "historic" numismatic items don't have any industrial use other than melting them... Silver has more use than a chain Large Cent, in that perspective.

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Good points. That being said, maybe he will leave them to his kids or something like that, on the other hand I plan to leave a legacy to my daughter in the way of some rarities. Heck she already has quite the graded collection of gold pandas that she has been picking up with her allowance and she just turned 8, so we will watch her passion with great interest!

 

In the scheme of things $400.00 in the numismatic world is not much for the high end collector, I guess I am kinda middle of the road, and my wife has been more than understanding with the thousands I spend annually but I do think it was time to rotate the coins that are duplicates or that will never be slabbed and added to the registry.

 

Again, that being said, I will use it to add some higher end eagles to the registry.

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A neighbor of mine with whom I am good friends asked me if I had any extra silver eagles that he could buy as he wants to have some silver "just in case".

 

lol Just in case what? If there is a massive financial meltdown, does he think that he will be able to buy bread and rice with silver rounds??

 

Um.

 

Yes.

 

That's exactly what happens. In a barter system, people recognize precious metal as a convenient wealth storage system, facilitating commerce.

 

If you are buying huge quantities of precious metals as a hedge (gamble) against inflation and the devaluation of the US Dollar, that is one thing. But having 10 ASEs in your sock drawer "just in case" doesn't really make sense to me. But, in this case it's good for you -- now you have $400 to spend on true historic numismatic items!!!

 

I will leave you with a quote from Warren Buffett, originally in reference to Gold, but just as relevant to any precious metal:

 

Gold is a way of going long on fear, and it has been a pretty good way of going long on fear from time to time. But you really have to hope people become more afraid in a year or two years than they are now. And if they become more afraid you make money, if they become less afraid you lose money, but the gold itself doesnt produce anything.

 

[Gold] gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head.

 

-- Warren Buffett, March 2011

 

Setting aside the industrial value of silver, platinum AND gold, etc, Mr.Buffet has always failed to understand that gold is a universal payment method, recognized the world over, as a means of facilitating commerce. That is its most important utility, and it's a powerful one.

 

If the fiat currency fails, gold doesn't "stay" in that hole in the ground...it will be exchanged for goods and services, as it should be now.

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Also, technically, "historic" numismatic items don't have any industrial use other than melting them... Silver has more use than a chain Large Cent, in that perspective.

 

I no where stated that my coins had utility...I (or rather Warren Buffett) only stated that Silver, Gold, and other precious metals do not have utility in line with their current prices. I am well aware that they have limited industrial and technological utility. BUT, the point of Warren Buffet's quote is that 1) Most all precious metals are tied up in raw form in vaults, and 2) their values are not in line with their demand.

 

People hoard gold because they think it has some inherent magical properties, and because it has historically been used as a form of fiat money. If there is a world meltdown or "Armageddon" type scenario, I promise you no one will care how many ounces of gold (or silver) you have. ;) Buffett sums it up best...it is a gamble, going long on fear. To each his/her own.

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If the fiat currency fails, gold doesn't "stay" in that hole in the ground...it will be exchanged for goods and services, as it should be now.

 

Backing one fiat currency (paper) with another fiat currency (gold/silver) makes no sense to me. I have tried time and time again to understand why gold and silver are not considered fiat money by most people. Both metals only have appreciable value because of a worldwide "decree" that they are in some way special. Their prices are not in line with their supply, and the metals themselves have no intrinsic value beyond other metals like iron, copper, tin, zinc, etc.

 

Yes, they have some industrial applications, but so do copper and zinc, etc. It's more of a philosophical or historical point here, but they are basically the world-decreed storage of wealth because they are shiny, and they don't corrode. In a true barter system you trade utility goods for other utility goods (or services). Trading a piece of shiny metal for goods means it is a currency...and at that, arbitrarily "worth" what you traded it as. The guy who sells you rice for your gold coin, isn't then using your gold coin to make a motherboard for his computer. ;)

 

Just my 2c

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gold and silver are not "fiat currencies"..maybe you should look up the term a little bit better..and of course Buffet is going to say things that support where his vast wealth and holdings are--in stocks, treasuries and derivatives...

 

 

Two other things that Buffet is dead wrong on--there actually is FAR GREATER demand for precious metals, silver in particular, than there is actual silver...that's what the last big drop in price was from when the markets tried to reign in the purchasing/selling by the big guys..

 

For example, it is estimated that Goldman Sachs alone has over 200,000, 000 ounces of silver that they have bought with the older, lower margins per 5,000 oz's --only problem is, if even half of the buyers demanded physical delivery of the silver that they've bought and/or invested in from these big brokers-well Goldman Sachs, Bear Stearns and others simply don't have the physical silver that they've been buying and selling. So what would happen?..a mad dash of buying at ever rocketing prices to deliver what people had bought or they would be defaulting on their investors...

 

So that's the first MAJOR FALLACY that was mentioned about price being higher than demand--actually price of precious metals has been intentionally held down and is well below the inflation rates of the past 30+ years...

 

The second MAJOR FALLACY is that gold and silver will have no value in an economic collapse. While it is true that food, gasoline, medications etc in an "armageddon type scenario" would trade at a premium..history has shown OVER AND OVER that precious metals quickly return as a central standard for indicating values of items....

 

Example: a gallon of gas for a silver ounce...or maybe 2 cans of chunky soup for an ounce..either way, if someone needs food but the other guy doesn't want any gasoline..the guy with the gas and the guy with the canned goods can still barter...thousands and thousands of years before the stock exchange, paper currency and digital money this worked--and it would quickly return to status quo..

 

Having said all of that, " just in case" obviously should include some stores of all of these things..including precious metals...

 

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Exactly. Gold has been used as a bartering tool longer than any other form of currency.

 

It suprises me about what you said- that silver can't buy things in a destroyed economy. Bullion was the form of money our ancestors used. It is widely known that it has had great use, and people keep it, "just in case" ;)

 

Just because Buffet said something, it doesn't mean it's true. I don't see him as having ANY knowledge on trading bullion. It's just the fact that he has a lot of money that people listen to him.... But since he doesn't know about making money on gold, I can compare his opinions on the subject to a homeless man.

 

 

 

 

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Also, technically, "historic" numismatic items don't have any industrial use other than melting them... Silver has more use than a chain Large Cent, in that perspective.

 

I no where stated that my coins had utility...I (or rather Warren Buffett) only stated that Silver, Gold, and other precious metals do not have utility in line with their current prices. I am well aware that they have limited industrial and technological utility. BUT, the point of Warren Buffet's quote is that 1) Most all precious metals are tied up in raw form in vaults, and 2) their values are not in line with their demand.

 

People hoard gold because they think it has some inherent magical properties, and because it has historically been used as a form of fiat money. If there is a world meltdown or "Armageddon" type scenario, I promise you no one will care how many ounces of gold (or silver) you have. ;) Buffett sums it up best...it is a gamble, going long on fear. To each his/her own.

 

1. You stated that gold and silver have limited technological utility. Silver is a great conductor and is probably in every computer, TV, radio, etc. You even stated yourself gold doesn't corrode. Enough said.

 

2. "Inherent Magical Properties" ??? I don't see how that relates. People Invest in gold to make money, keep a barrier against inflation, and store it as a possible future bartering tool.

 

3. Constantly reffering and backing your claims to a person that has little education in bullion (Buffet) isn't exactly reliable.

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1. You stated that gold and silver have limited technological utility. Silver is a great conductor and is probably in every computer, TV, radio, etc. You even stated yourself gold doesn't corrode. Enough said.

 

2. "Inherent Magical Properties" ??? I don't see how that relates. People Invest in gold to make money, keep a barrier against inflation, and store it as a possible future bartering tool.

 

3. Constantly reffering and backing your claims to a person that has little education in bullion (Buffet) isn't exactly reliable.

 

If my choice is to take advice from Warren Buffet or you, sorry, but I choose Buffett. And I was in no way putting Buffet on a pedestal, I was just stating that I agree with his ideas of Gold and precious metals.

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1. You stated that gold and silver have limited technological utility. Silver is a great conductor and is probably in every computer, TV, radio, etc. You even stated yourself gold doesn't corrode. Enough said.

 

2. "Inherent Magical Properties" ??? I don't see how that relates. People Invest in gold to make money, keep a barrier against inflation, and store it as a possible future bartering tool.

 

3. Constantly reffering and backing your claims to a person that has little education in bullion (Buffet) isn't exactly reliable.

 

If my choice is to take advice from Warren Buffet or you, sorry, but I choose Buffett. And I was in no way putting Buffet on a pedestal, I was just stating that I agree with his ideas of Gold and precious metals.

 

I didn't tell you to listen to me. I already knew from your previous posts that you were with Buffett on your ideas.

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gold and silver are not "fiat currencies"..maybe you should look up the term a little bit better..and of course Buffet is going to say things that support where his vast wealth and holdings are--in stocks, treasuries and derivatives...

 

 

Two other things that Buffet is dead wrong on--there actually is FAR GREATER demand for precious metals, silver in particular, than there is actual silver...that's what the last big drop in price was from when the markets tried to reign in the purchasing/selling by the big guys..

 

For example, it is estimated that Goldman Sachs alone has over 200,000, 000 ounces of silver that they have bought with the older, lower margins per 5,000 oz's --only problem is, if even half of the buyers demanded physical delivery of the silver that they've bought and/or invested in from these big brokers-well Goldman Sachs, Bear Stearns and others simply don't have the physical silver that they've been buying and selling. So what would happen?..a mad dash of buying at ever rocketing prices to deliver what people had bought or they would be defaulting on their investors...

 

So that's the first MAJOR FALLACY that was mentioned about price being higher than demand--actually price of precious metals has been intentionally held down and is well below the inflation rates of the past 30+ years...

 

The second MAJOR FALLACY is that gold and silver will have no value in an economic collapse. While it is true that food, gasoline, medications etc in an "armageddon type scenario" would trade at a premium..history has shown OVER AND OVER that precious metals quickly return as a central standard for indicating values of items....

 

Example: a gallon of gas for a silver ounce...or maybe 2 cans of chunky soup for an ounce..either way, if someone needs food but the other guy doesn't want any gasoline..the guy with the gas and the guy with the canned goods can still barter...thousands and thousands of years before the stock exchange, paper currency and digital money this worked--and it would quickly return to status quo..

 

Having said all of that, " just in case" obviously should include some stores of all of these things..including precious metals...

 

My definition of "fiat" money: An intrinsicly invaluable form of currency or coin, used to trade or in exchange for real goods or services. This money is called "fiat" because it has been deemed by a government or a world economy to be worthy of this trade. In my opinion, fiat money includes things like paper money, coins, gold, silver, other "precious" metals, and historically such things as string, stones, beads, diamonds, etc.

 

This form of currency is convenient because it allows flexibility in trading (as described above). Some forms of fiat currency are "harder" than others, and are less prone to devaluation because of scarcity (for example, you can print more money but mining more gold is difficult). However, this fact doesn't alter the reality that neither paper money nor gold nor diamonds nor silver nor a host of other things used in this manner are still "fiat" money, by world decree only. Yes, gold and diamonds and silver and many other "fiat" monies can also have utility as "real goods", but if the trade for them is only for convenience they are "fiat".

 

I realize my definition is a bit different from what you may find in your economics books, but the true nature of the word "fiat" in Latin means what I am describing. It's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. So hoard your gold and your silver and your diamonds and the like, and if/when there is ever a true meltdown, we will see if the guy down the street is willing to take a trade of new shoes for his rice, or a chunk of some shiny metal. :)

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gold and silver are not "fiat currencies"..maybe you should look up the term a little bit better..and of course Buffet is going to say things that support where his vast wealth and holdings are--in stocks, treasuries and derivatives...

 

 

Two other things that Buffet is dead wrong on--there actually is FAR GREATER demand for precious metals, silver in particular, than there is actual silver...that's what the last big drop in price was from when the markets tried to reign in the purchasing/selling by the big guys..

 

For example, it is estimated that Goldman Sachs alone has over 200,000, 000 ounces of silver that they have bought with the older, lower margins per 5,000 oz's --only problem is, if even half of the buyers demanded physical delivery of the silver that they've bought and/or invested in from these big brokers-well Goldman Sachs, Bear Stearns and others simply don't have the physical silver that they've been buying and selling. So what would happen?..a mad dash of buying at ever rocketing prices to deliver what people had bought or they would be defaulting on their investors...

 

So that's the first MAJOR FALLACY that was mentioned about price being higher than demand--actually price of precious metals has been intentionally held down and is well below the inflation rates of the past 30+ years...

 

The second MAJOR FALLACY is that gold and silver will have no value in an economic collapse. While it is true that food, gasoline, medications etc in an "armageddon type scenario" would trade at a premium..history has shown OVER AND OVER that precious metals quickly return as a central standard for indicating values of items....

 

Example: a gallon of gas for a silver ounce...or maybe 2 cans of chunky soup for an ounce..either way, if someone needs food but the other guy doesn't want any gasoline..the guy with the gas and the guy with the canned goods can still barter...thousands and thousands of years before the stock exchange, paper currency and digital money this worked--and it would quickly return to status quo..

 

Having said all of that, " just in case" obviously should include some stores of all of these things..including precious metals...

 

My definition of "fiat" money: An intrinsicly invaluable form of currency or coin, used to trade or in exchange for real goods or services. This money is called "fiat" because it has been deemed by a government or a world economy to be worthy of this trade. In my opinion, fiat money includes things like paper money, coins, gold, silver, other "precious" metals, and historically such things as string, stones, beads, diamonds, etc.

 

This form of currency is convenient because it allows flexibility in trading (as described above). Some forms of fiat currency are "harder" than others, and are less prone to devaluation because of scarcity (for example, you can print more money but mining more gold is difficult). However, this fact doesn't alter the reality that neither paper money nor gold nor diamonds nor silver nor a host of other things used in this manner are still "fiat" money, by world decree only. Yes, gold and diamonds and silver and many other "fiat" monies can also have utility as "real goods", but if the trade for them is only for convenience they are "fiat".

 

I realize my definition is a bit different from what you may find in your economics books, but the true nature of the word "fiat" in Latin means what I am describing. It's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. So hoard your gold and your silver and your diamonds and the like, and if/when there is ever a true meltdown, we will see if the guy down the street is willing to take a trade of new shoes for his rice, or a chunk of some shiny metal. :)

 

Your implying bullion has no actual, industrial use. Mabye you should read my previous posts. lol

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Your implying bullion has no actual, industrial use. Mabye you should read my previous posts. lol

 

You apparently can't read. I state that there are obviously industrial uses of silver, gold, copper, tin, zinc, iron, etc. How exactly do silver or gold bars and coins have industrial use as coins and bars on their own? Yes, if they are integrated into some product they have industrial utility, but as blobs of metal sitting in your safe or in Fort Knox they have no intrinsic value.

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Your implying bullion has no actual, industrial use. Mabye you should read my previous posts. lol

 

You apparently can't read. I state that there are obviously industrial uses of silver, gold, copper, tin, zinc, iron, etc. How exactly do silver or gold bars and coins have industrial use as coins and bars on their own? Yes, if they are integrated into some product they have industrial utility, but as blobs of metal sitting in your safe or in Fort Knox they have no intrinsic value.

 

What do you mean by "intrinsic value"? In today's world, intrinsic value is what the metal is worth. Even if they are "sitting there", it's still worth what it's worth in bullion. BTW, I was stating what you were implying.

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When the Zombie Apocalypse occurs, Gold and Silver will be worthless. Only thing worth having will be superior survival skills, something from Mr. Colt, Mr. Shakespeare, and Mr. Buck.

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I know the feeling... I had bought some raw SAEs back when silver was $5 an ounce, and just sold them for $40 a pop. Once my SAE collection was switched to NGC graded coins, I also sold my album SAEs... I raised about $1200, which I used to feed my collecting bug :P

 

 

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