The Time Machine

[cladking]

OK. Here's what I'd have done. I would have gone backward in time negative three years with a handful of worn states quarters and will have purchased a 2006 Redbook and all dates of Coin World in the first coin shop I'll stumble on. Only then I save my other trips for errands made clear by my purchases at 2005.

[coppercoins-migration]

Yeah, I know...I just get carried away sometimes. That's why the last few words of my previous post where I just went ahead and answered the "what if". Chill pill taken, I'm in the groove now...thanks.

[jtryka]

Only on the NGC forum could I find a discussion of the risks and rewards of time travel! So what happens if time is not linear?

[GDJMSP]

Oh c'mon now !! This is supposed to fun - and make you think a little bit Let's not let mere technicalities get in the way here - sheeeeeesh

 

And clad - I already told ya man - you can't do that. Your time machine doesn't even have a muffler bearing

[ablue]

I would go to get a few mint Actions#1,

A few Detectives #27 , and superman #1's

 

[coppercoins-migration]

I have a hard time understanding how time could NOT be linear...which is the primary reason for my posts explaining the thought of the event while at the same time stating I believe it's impossible.

 

I think you could be getting at the multiple plane idea in which there exist an infinite number of "universes" that all started out identical, but each took different turns in different directions based on what happened on each of them individually. A "time traveller" would simply hop the imaginary ferry from plane to plane seeking out that which has evolved at a different stage, thus making their "reality" seem like our "past". That idea has many holes, not the least of which being that they all happen on the same Earth, and if some monkey pushes the magic button on one of them, we're all toast. Another problem is that this idea still supports linear time...so what are you really talking about?

 

My personal way of viewing it is that once a second is over, it's over. Written, done, been there, got the t-shirt. You can't go back, you can't change anything. Now...future travel is an entirely different ball of wax...only problem is, once you're there, you are there to stay. You can't come back, cause that would be travel into the past, which is impossible. You also cannot stop or slow down time, which I wish I could do on a regular basis. Einstein theorized that you could decellerate your rate of age by accellerating your relative speed to other things around you. If you go fast enough, everything around you moves faster, thus effectively pushing you into the future. The math works, nobody is brave enough to try it, nor do we yet have machines that could travel that fast without disintegrating. It could happen in the future, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it. After all, look at the reverse evolution happening in our own government.

 

Anyhow, travelling into the future might be interesting. One could become rather wealthy by predicting what would be "valuable" and taking a pile of it with them when they go. Too risky for me, though. I wouldn't want to jump ten years to find that Iraq controlled half the world and N. Korea controlled the other half. The pile of coins I took with me would become instantly insignificant, and I would be mortified to have wasted what good life I had due to greed. I'm happy where I am.

 

Darn, there I go again...!

 

 

[jtryka]

Coppercoins,

 

I am not a scientist, so take all of my theories with a grain of salt. But what I am thinking is that perhaps time is not linear, but perhaps curvalinear, or even spherical. If we were to exist outside of time, that might be what it looks like. But we are constrained by time, and can only see what we can under that constraint. As a simple example, look at the earth. Growing up in the midwest, it seemed pretty flat. Over time, I traveled all over the world, and everywhere I went, it still seemed flat to me. It's not until you leave earth and travel far enough into space that you can see the whole earth, and what do you know? It's a big ball! The problem is that most of us can think in 2 or maybe 3 dimentions. Thinking in four or more dimentions is almost impossible except for those gifted enough with extreme intellect. That limitation on how most of us think promts us to strive to fit everything we learn and experience into the most convenient and easy terms possible. That is why time is linear. But I only suggest that may not be the case, but may just be the most convenient construct most of us could come up with. Now this discussion is edging ever so close to the philosophical, and that's making me so uncomfortable!

[coppercoins-migration]

Now that's sure enough a head-scratcher. A sphere of time...I'll have to give that one some consideration. Just a question, if you care to respond...if time is a sphere, and we are constrained within it, how do we not slip out of place in that sphere acidentally falling all over ourselves in different times? I'm not at all knocking your theory, I'm open to anything. I just want to hear how the bases are covered. Basically, how do we travel within that sphere? All at the same time like the sun rises, or do we all have different paths (hence different birth dates and death dates)? BTW, I agree with you regarding modern plastic collectors, but that's a different thread.

[jtryka]

I was actually thinking that we are on the surface of the sphere, occupying a very tiny section. In this way, speed of light travel allows us to advance slightly on the sphere, thus making travel to the future a possibility. What we lack is a way to break through the surface of the sphere to get to the other side (either directly across, or at a very slight angle depending on how far back you want to go) which would be the method for traveling backwards in time, or forwards over greater distances than the minor shifts associated with light speed travel. As to how to break through the sphere, well your guess is as good as mine.

[EVillageProwler]

I am really a math person, but last I remember from my Einsteinian physics is that time is whatever shape you want it to be, as long as you tweak with its frame of reference.

 

Remember the words of a non-scientist (JTryka): that we see time as linear because of our frame of reference. In rudimentary calculus, many functions (the proper term is actually ``relation'') are non-linear when applied to the standard Cartesian X-Y coordinate system. Yet, they can be made linear if we used a different coordinate system, like polar (radius,angle). In electrical engineering, we typically get non-linear functions when mapping the characteristics of our circuits in the time domain. Yet, when applying a Fourier transform to convert to the frequency (1/time) domain, our function generally becomes linear (or, at least much easier to solve).

 

EVP

 

[Guest]

I'm a bit late reposting but here goes. I don't agree with the fact that if I pluck a roll of say 1916 quarters from the bank in 1916 that I have probably taken someone's coin who possesses it in 2002. The chances are less than 5% (maybe only 1-2%) that any of the 1916's I took would survive to the year 2002. There's a good chance (95%) that none in my roll would make it to the future any ways. Out of a mintage of 52000 pieces I think 2500 is a safe # of those surviving. But...let's argue that one of my coins was one that was destined to survive as the finest known and end up in Jay Cline's personal collection. Once I plucked that roll away, the course of history changes, and ole Jay would NEVER had seen that quarter. And if I instantly could check his holdings once I returned to the future, he would have a different 1916 quarter in his set....or maybe none at all. You see, along the way in the new course of history that I changed by my trip, he would have bought another gem piece that caught his fancy. Other related events could have changed too since maybe Jay would have had to attend a different auction in a different city to buy that other specimen. Many, many things would all be affected. Maybe Jay's impetus to start collecting SLQ's was initiated by that first gem 25c that he no longer would have. Maybe he never would have collected SLQ's because of the change and their popularity today would be less.

 

As far as an effect on the market that a roll of choice 1916's would have?....ZILCH.

Actually, I would not be surprised to see the market go HIGHER. You could dump them all in one day, but any short term effect would get wiped out over months or a few years. Recall the Redfield and Indiana Bank dollar hoards that only fueled the Morgan market. And we're only talking 40 pieces, not thousands or hundreds. There are still rolls of 1901-s 25c's and 1889-cc dollars out there. A roll of 1916 quarters would have little effect except to fuel more interest. Since I was the one that went back to get them, I'd sell these blue chips slowly over decades. No one would ever notice.

 

roadrunner

 

 

[GDJMSP]

You guys just have to go and do it don't ya - ok so will I.

 

Since it has been mentioned about the shape of time - one should also remember that Einstein also said that if a man could actually see far enough - the thing he would be looking at would be the back of his own head. Now put that into your theories and play with that one a while

 

roadrunner -

 

Another good point - I would have to agree with your idea about the coin being replaced by another. As for the effect on the market - not so sure on that one. I think it would matter.

 

What I would do is seek single examples of coins that I wished to add to my collection. They would of course be those that are very hard to find - but not impossible in todays world. I would also not seek the finest examples known - but they would definitely be among them.

 

As for the time periods - the early 1850's in California. The coins - California gold what else. The method of payment - easiest of all to obtain then and now - gold dust & nuggets. Also easily weighed and exchanged for coins.

 

The next period would be 1750ish in Colonial Cuba. This is where all of the Spanish gold & silver stopped off on its way to Spain. The method of payment - coin of the realm - easily exchanged for similar coins.

 

Last but not least - Greece in the time of Alexander. The coins - obvious - gold & silver bearing his image. The method of payment - bolts of cloth - particularly silk - and spices. Both of which could easily be sold in any marketplace in exchange for gold & silver coins.