First Submission Results posted by mwallner

[CSJournals-migration]

How can you tell if a coin is improperly cleaned?

 

I had 10 coins that I had submitted for grading, and had my coins looked over thoroughly, and had 6 out of the ten come back with improper cleaning. (I didn't clean them, I bought them because they were in great shape and the price was right.) The price matched what was right with NGC, so I had them checked and sent them in.

 

The 10 coins I sent in for my first submission were an 1806 Bust half (Which came back as VG8), an 1817, 1818, and a 1830 Capped bust (Whic are coming back IMPROPERLY CLEANED, with VF DETAILS) , a 1941 (Which came back as a MS 63, I was figuring at leat a MS 65 to MS 66.) and 1946 (Which came back as a MS 61, and I was figuring at least a MS 65 to MS 66.) Walking Liberty halves, a 1941 (Which came back as a MS 64, and I was figuring a MS 67 or MS 68, it has high definition and no nicks, and follow what the books tell you to look for.) and 1946 (Which cam back as a MS 64 , I was figuring it as a MS 66 or MS 67, again the details were all there for it according to the books.) Washington quarters, a 1941 Mercury dime (Which cam back as UNC DETAILS, IMPROPERLY CLEANED, again how can one tell when purchasing if it is improperly cleaned, I didn't wee anything different from one to another.), and a 1946 Roosevelt dime (Which came back as a MS 65, and I was figuring it as a MS 67 or MS 68 per the book reference.).

 

I had figured the insurance purposes around $6400, but as I looked at other auctions for similar coins with the same details that these coins show, I thought I had low balled that. (I was hoping any way.)

 

What did I learn, that I am not a good judge for coins, and that I wasted way too much money on this. I feel like I was lead astray and am ready to give this expensive hobby up!

 

See more journals by mwallner

[Broc Mitchell]

What you have is an expensive lesson that you will want to spend a lot of time studying.

 

I wouldn't give up the hobby just yet. It can be very rewarding once you get the hang of things.

 

Your coins were graded low or given 'details' grades for a reason, you can now study those coins and find out just why.

 

Improperly cleaned can mean many things when it comes down to it. Either a coin was dipped in acid and has been 'washed out', someone rubbed it with a cloth and left very hard to detect polish lines on the coin, or it could even be something as simple as a spot removed by someone scratching at it with their thumb nail, just a tiny bruised area that could keep a coin from being graded and would be hard to detect unless you were familiar with what to look for.

 

On Walking Liberty Half Dollars, one of the key 'focal areas' is the right field area of the obverse. A ding here can be 2x as damaging to grade as the same mark somewhere else. Small hairlines anywhere on the coin may be inconspicuous without fully rotating a coin under proper lighting, but can make what looks like a MS-65 grade as MS-63 (Ive even seen MS-65 'looking' coins grade as MS-61 due to similar attributes). See NGC's article here: http://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading-guide/Grading-Walking-Liberty-Half-Dollars.aspx

 

I would suggest the following for you at this point: Hold off on buying raw coins until you feel confident you have identified just what made your details coins come back details, and just what made the others come back graded lower than what you expected. You can either hoard your spending budget and have a good go once you have accumulated the knowledge needed to make good buying decisions, or use that money to buy already graded coins in the mean time (which would expand your base of study coins as well).

 

Best luck!

[J.A. Collection]

What you have is an expensive lesson that you will want to spend a lot of time studying. I wouldn't give up the hobby just yet. It can be very rewarding once you get the hang of things.

CONCUR!

[patrick gerard-migration]

i know your frustation, i have the same problems with wheat and indians head. i suggest you buy and read couple books

1 "COIN CHEMISTRY"

2 " ANY REFERENCE BOOKS FROM Q DAVID BOWERS "

I get that suggestions from members in previous posting. And i would suggest tou buy already graded coins at the begining.

be patient you just started their is soo much too learn about coins

good luck

[TD Henson]

We've all had these same expensive lessons... I've kept records and look at thousands of Roosevelt dimes every year and only 3% of what I've graded meet the MS 68 guidelines.

 

Marks, dings and other imperfections hide in onerous places in the devices on a coin. I completely agree that you should use this as a learning tool - review each and make notes on what you see now that you have the NGC opinion.

 

Grading is difficult at best, but don't give up!

[Kenneth F]

I concur with brocmitchell.. dont give up. You have to be really careful on what you purchase. On Ebay, there are tons of "get rich quick" guys and the "Ebay price gougers union"... do serious research before purchasing anything. When dealing with a local dealer.. remember, their lights benefit them...

 

When it comes to cleaned coins (and i know pictures are hard to judge).. the first thing you check is the devices.. start with the outer ring... for Morgans, its the stars.. if it looks foggy around the devices or any relief, its cleaned... if its not foggy looking.. look for dirt looking material.. it will be built up around high relief areas.. if everything looks good.. check out the luster.. for older coins, the fields will have a super shiny brushed look. The silver wont look like glass and it will have a "cartwheel" shine when the coin is rotated slightly. With the "brushed" shine fields, the high relief should have the same luster (no cartwheel appearance).. if the high relief has a smooth shiny appearance, theres a good chance its been polished.

 

It can be very difficult to detect a cleaned coins without proper loops or microscopes.. buying raw coins in this time of age is a crapshoot..

 

Remember, research and advice from fellow collectors makes you a better shopper. Ive been collecting for 30 years now.. most of my coins are raw... and I still ask for assistance.

 

oh yea by the way.. my first submission was a disaster... we all live and learn.

[James_OldeTowne]

So many bust half-dollars have been cleaned, that you almost should expect such a disclaimer these days. And frankly, that isn't necessarily something to fret over. There must be tens of thousands of certified bust halves that are also cleaned, but those are the ones that just "got lucky".

 

The 1941 dime is a different story. It likely wasn't actually numismatically cleaned, but incidentally rubbed by a cloth by someone along the way.